ibelieveinthelittletreetopper:

schmerzerling:

eliciaforever:

winjennster:

disease-danger-darkness-silence:

terriamon:

peujeune:

terriamon:

are we done pretending supernatural is a good show

Excuse fucking me? Say that again bitch?

are we done pretending supernatural is a good show

We are, in fact, done pretending supernatural is a good show.

Are we done pretending that a huge ass group of people can’t still continue to love the show and think it’s still good while others don’t?

Newflash, tumblr, it’s ok to have differing opinions. If you don’t think SPN is good, fab! There’s lot of other channels and shows you can turn on.

If you still think SPN is good and enjoyable, then don’t let someone on tumblr make you feel bad for enjoying it.

“Don’t let someone make you feel bad for enjoying it.” No. That’s not how privilege works. Because privilege is central to what makes Supernatural a bad show. What Supernatural fans need to do is LET PEOPLE SAY IT’S BAD. And move on quietly, respecting that those people who are damaged by Supernatural’s irresponsible bullshit are allowed to speak up about their media being garbage.

Because there’s a difference between a show being good and enjoying a show.

Supernatural is not a good show. I love Supernatural.

See what I did?

It’s a bad fucking show. It is. It’s damaging to people of color, women, and queer people. You know how I know that? Because I listen to people of color, women, and queer people who find it damaging and have said so. And instead of defending Supernatural, I keep my mouth shut, let the people who need to speak up have a voice, and go on enjoying my show.

That’s how you enjoy problematic things.

There’s no high horse about that. I don’t feel threatened by that. I can understand that Supernatural is a shitty, damaging show that treats its female characters like garbage and has virtually zero characters of color. And I can still like it.

If you like it, fine. But if you encounter people who have a problem with it, respect that they have a problem with it—BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GOOD REASON TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT—and that includes letting people say it’s garbage right here on Tumblr. And then scroll by and go on enjoying your show without feeling the need to defend something that actually hurts people. That’s what surrendering your privilege is all about.

The Supernatural fandom needs to learn to not be threatened. I know from more than enough experience.

Whew. Okay. Listen, I’m not gonna defend our good ole friend
peujeune up there, because the “WHAT U SAY BITCH” is a pretty classic
fandom baby response, and imma bet peujeune is like 16 and thinks s/he’s pretty
edgy for gettin on OP’s case. I’m not defending that kind of behavior.

However, I don’t think that peujeune would use that tone or
respond that way to just any criticism of Supernatural. In my experience, when
people ARE vocal about things that are problematic in the show, a majority of
fans are supportive and responsive. But OP didn’t write this post for the sake
of social justice–I sincerely doubt they were trying to address privilege,
here. To me, the tone of OP’s post is, rather, an effort to dismiss and step
away from a large contingent of the tumblr fan community. It is a status
symbol. What the OP has said is that the show is Not Good. But what people are
reading into it is this: This show is not good and you are stupid for liking it. The
people who reblog this post who are in the fandom will use it as a point of
pride because it shines like a badge of enlightenment–they are henceforth exonerated
from any ridicule of the show because they, unlike the rest of the fandom, are Smart enough to know their
show is Not Good. And for people who are not involved
with the fandom, this is ridicule. It’s a taunt, and it strikes me as very
mean-spirited, especially given the way it very purposefully makes an example
of a young fan, framing them as the idiot-mirror to a popular argument and
allowing the reader to get a good laugh at their expense. This post is not a
friendly post or a well-reasoned discussion about privilege. This post is kind
of mean, and it is made for no other reason than to make people feel bad about
themselves. What other purpose could it possibly have?

Obviously people are allowed to dislike the show. Obviously
people are allowed to think it is not a good show. And obviously tons of people
do! Even the people who do define Supernatural as a “good” show are critical of
it. The trick is to watch Supernatural with a discerning eye and a critical
mind–and that’s the trick to watching literally anything nowadays. It’s kind
of the purpose of fandom. Engage with your media and start a dialogue about
it–tumblr is an amazing forum for it. I have met so many smart, critical,
open-minded people in the Supernatural fandom. Anyone who is passively
consuming media probably isn’t on tumblr anyway, because this is the land of
rabid, active consumption where people come to be engaged in their media and
participate with a group that is, likewise, engaged in its media. So yes, I
absolutely support you when you say that people are allowed to voice their
opinions on the show and the reasons it is problematic and the ways that it
hurt them. I see that happen every day without consequence. No, what I have a
problem with is the particular brand of self-hating fandom you’re asking us to
aspire to.

This problem is endemic to tumblr–“goodness” or enjoyability
being equated with an arbitrary sense of moral rightness. Equating a show
or movie with its moral weaknesses, writing off an actor or musician
as “problematic” once they have done something that some faction of tumblr
perceives as harmful. This dialogue is RAMPANT on tumblr, and no matter how
good its intention may be, no matter how much good it might have done, no
matter how right someone might be, the language employed often reeks of
self-righteous, pedagogic propaganda. It paints the reader as privileged,
unsympathetic, harmful, weak-willed, and lacking a moral compass if they do not
feel a certain way. It backs them into a corner, creates a dichotomy, and
forces them to make a decision, much like the post above: Am I a good, smart
person like the OP? Or am I like peujeune? Do I think Supernatural is bad, or
am I an idiot? You employed that very same language above, and you did so with
such virulent authority, from such a very high moral ground, that it MUST be
true: Do I listen to women, people of color, and queer people, or do I say the
show is good? Do I think this is a bad show, or am I problematic?

See what you did?

And here’s the thing: fundamentally, I am not
disagreeing with you. Allow people to express their grievances. Respect the
beliefs of others. Acknowledge the ways in which your show might be deeply
flawed. But your method of doing so is a problem.

I don’t have to hate myself for thinking this show is good. I don’t. That’s literally all that @winjennster was saying before you
crawled up her ass, and she’s absolutely right. Essentially, you’re allowing
people to come into your church to worship your god, but you’re still telling those
heathens they’re going to hell with a smile on your face, and so help them if
they don’t keep their fuckin’ mouths shut about it.

What is “good” is more nuanced than what we
have been led to believe on tumblr. “Good” is not
objective. “Good” is not something that you alone get to decide on, and “good”
is certainly not something that you
get to define for me. This is not black and white. Something can be “good”
and problematic. Something can progress. Something can stagnate. Something can
have a great scope and a great range of quality and sensitivity. Great works of
literature and film might be racist or sexist, authors who have produced great
works might be terrible people. We just have to have to fortitude to
acknowledge those things, think about them, and consider the way that they
piece into our lives, and the way we can reconcile them with our modern
society, our personal moral code, and the rights and wrongs we abide by. And
even though I will freely allow people to express the ways in which they think
the show has failed them on their own blog, in their own sphere of influence, I
do not have to let that become my truth. As someone who is critically engaged
with the show and with the fandom, as someone who is a conscientious observer
and someone who identifies as queer in several respects, as someone who is
respectful and thoughtful, I am allowed to feel however the fuck I want about
Supernatural, and you don’t get to say fuck-all about it.

So when I see a post like this, where someone
has employed hurtful dialogue to purport a message that is in no way productive
or progressive, I am allowed to think: Fuck off. Supernatural has issues. But
Supernatural is good. Supernatural has done good. Supernatural means a great
deal to me. I appreciate and respect the strides this show has taken, the way
its actors and its characters have grown and changed.

And, yeah. I fuckin’ like it.

In which @schmerzerling is the hero we need.

Seriously, don’t fucking tell people how to enjoy art.