gingerautie:

fandomjunkie2004:

gingerautie:

morbidly-queerious:

shippingisnotactivism:

gingerautie:

fierceawakening:

gingerautie:

heterolance:

rogueoftimeywimeystuff:

gingerautie:

shippingisnotactivism:

It’s not… anti rhetoric to discourage teenagers from dynamics they can’t handle.

This ask makes me really uncomfortable. If it worked for you, you’re the exception. Holy shit. And as an adult, it would be hella irresponsible for me to say minors are allowed in kink. If you are an adult now, and you’re encouraging minors to ger into kink, you’re a danger to those minors.

It really, really depends what you mean by “involved in kink”.

Getting involved in the actual scene and going to play events under 18 is a) illegal and b) a terrible idea.

Contacting older men on the internet and agreeing to meet up with them for play is a terrible idea if you’re underage, and a risky one even as an adult.

But I think you’re really, really underestimating how patronising and ineffective it is to tell teenagers than they’re not allowed to do something right now because there are “dynamics they’re not mature enough to handle” or whatever.

Jumping into intense D/s stuff or higher risk activities (eg. suspension) is a bad idea for newbies as a rule, regardless of age. But not all kink stuff is intense D/s.

Where I live, a 16 year old can decide to have all the kinky sex they want, with anyone over the age of 16, and it’s all legal as long as no one takes a photo. Seriously. 

It could be problematic, but it could also be a 16 year old being spanked by their teenage partner, which isn’t really higher risk than a sexual relationship in the first place. It’s barely even a dynamic, and if a 16 year old can handle a sexual relationship and knows they want kink stuff, then why shouldn’t they? I think saying that that would expose someone to child on child sexual assault is overdramatic. 

You don’t get to determine the sex lives of other people over the age of consent – that’s anti-rhetoric. Minors aren’t allowed into specific events, but you can’t say they’re not “allowed” in kink. Honestly if teenagers are going to be playing around with stuff like rope and impact play it’s much better that they do it with at least some contact with the community so they don’t take stupid risks. 

There are a few kink scene places where it would, IMO, be fine for a 16/17 year old to be. Like an under 25s munch in a pub at lunchtime. 

All the risks you talk about with being mature enough to handle dynamics or people making mistakes are equally applicable to 18 year olds. 

You’re parroting the anit-rhetoric that people talking about their own experiences are somehow a danger to children.

I got my boyfriend to top me when I was 16, and that wasn’t sexual assault. It wasn’t something I couldn’t handle, because it was literally just a bit of spanking. 

For young people in a relationship who want to explore things like impact play, and talk to their partners, take sensible precautions and so on, I don’t think it’s more likely to end up as sexual assault than vanilla sex is just because someone is 17 rather than 19.

A) being Anti-anti is being against the idea that fiction
is reality and knowing that what you think, want, and desire is
different than what you do.

B) it’s knowing that consenting ADULTS are exactly that. Consenting Adults. And Kink is their own damn business.

C) Anti rhetoric is telling fucking adults that they’re not allowed to be kinky and that they’re abusive/victims for being so!

IDK about you, I don’t know you. But I have a child. I am fucking
prepared to the teeth on how I plan on handling Sex Ed with her,
especially as my fiancee and I are kinky and in a 24/7 TPE styled relationship.

Will I tell her she can’t have a power exchange style relationship? No. What I will tell her is that she should consider it long and hard and be safe… and to come to me (or any of the adults she can trust in her life) if she has any issues with the person involved. I will say that I would prefer she not and give good reasons as to why not. Because you’re right. Teenagers will still do it regardless of what we say on the internet.

HOWEVER underaged play is enough of a risk that most responsible members of the Kink community are willing
to blanketly call out as a problem. If you are under 18, you should not
be in a power dynamic based relationship. You can write roleplay (with
your peers), you can learn, you can read, you can enjoy all the smutty
fiction you like! But for fucks sake, don’t put you or your partner at
risk.

This isn’t worrying about fiction vs reality. This is reality. And the reality is, while individual teenagers might be ready for this shit? It’s IRRESPONSIBLE to say that it’s OKAY for kids to act like this.

can i just say that the argument against kinky teens is being far too vague – like i understand thinking it unwise for teens to engage in hardcore stuff like full on bdsm and roleplay etc, but often kinky means literally just getting slapped on the ass during sex or being a bit rougher than usual, or wearing some fancy lingerie. I have a feeling nobody actually read what @gingerautie said because they really explain it perfectly.

And yeah, funny enough, you sound exactly like an anti by making sweeping statements about the age of consent. It’s old news already that 16 year olds are in many places actually fully legal – even in america – and it really is rude and patronising to call legal teens “minors” just because of conflicting laws.

Yeah, like, if a 16 year old is jumping into intense power exchange then that’s a terrible idea. If they’re being tied to the bed during sex, then that’s not really on the same level.

Also like, “i’ll pretend I’m a naughty maid and you can spank me” type role play also strikes me as totally harmless. Especially since there’s a very clear distinction between reality and play-role. That’s not suddenly going to turn into sexual assault because someone can’t handle they dynamics. If someone says stop and their partner doesn’t, then that’s sexual assault, but that’s because someone continued without consent, not because someone “couldn’t handle the dynamics”.

And frankly, 16 year olds sexually assaulting each other isn’t COCSA anyway, because they’re not children.

Kink can be really, really mild, and kink can be really intense. Anyone, getting into kink at any age, should be starting slowly, because stuff like drop can really take you by surprise.

I’m not convinced by the “you can’t have sex you enjoy if you’re under 18″ argument. 

My feeling on this has always been that obligate kinky people exist, and some of them realize what sexuality is before 18. I think these people should have access to basic information, in a similar way to how I learned “this is what sex act x is and how to do it more safely if you’re going to” from sex ed.

I do not think adults should be teaching them. I think adults should be saying “yes, we put on workshops. Yes, if you want to top , eventually coming to them is a good idea. No, we can’t let you in until you are of age. We recommend waiting to try anything you feel you need classes/training about until you are old enough to come to our workshops.”

Exactly. I knew what kink was by 14, and I knew it was what I was interested in. I did a lot of “yes I’m 18″ clicking to get it, but I had access to plenty of information on safety and stuff, and that was really, really helpful. 

Workshops etc. aren’t places for under 18s (liability up the wazoo, venue owners have responsibility, people would have to get certification for working with minors etc). 

I think having access to munches and adults you who can ask questions like “is this a thing I should wait until I go to a workshop for?” is a really worthwhile thing though. And adults who can give you sensible answers to “is this thing ok?/how do we deal with this issue/prevent this from happening etc”. And pointers like “don’t use metal handcuffs if you like your wrists” and “always have a spare key”. 

Munches happening in public spaces during the daytime, in pubs or parks are probably fine for teenagers to attend, but never lie about your age, and probably ask the organisers beforehand.

Parts of this post just feel like they’re telling teenage me “no, you should have sex you find dull and tedious for two years, you’re not allowed to talk about what you want in bed, and acting on your sexual desires is terrible because you’re weird”

@gingerautie I literally said none of that, nor did Rogue. You are projecting hard. I suggest taking a step back and rereading my actual post instead of making up an idea about what it says in your head. I also qualified several times what exactly I mean by “kink”

I didn’t really want to get involved with this conversation but here we go.

@gingerautie

You are actively endangering people by advocating that minors can trespass on 18+ spaces in order to get information about an 18+ community they can use in their 17- lives. And if you don’t buy the idea that the minors themselves are at risk than maybe pay the fuck attention to this. Adults who are caught interacting with 18+ communities that have been infiltrated by minors get arrested. It doesn’t matter if they didn’t know. It doesn’t matter if they tried to stop them. It often doesn’t matter if they never even interacted with the minor in question. It literally does not matter to them. Because we are adults in an 18+ community WE are held legally responsible for the ways that minors have interacted with it.

When minors infiltrate 18+ kink communities, those communities get criminalized and shut down, and EVERYONE loses access to it and the adults involved lose even more. So if you don’t want to have a conversation about the impact of involvement on the minors, then pay attention to the impact on the adults. I know you’ve reblogged stuff from me before about the way that kink can get you arrested for felony sex crimes. Now imagine that they can tack on evidence of minors being present in your online guides to safe practice, in your rope tutorial videos, in your trade of clothing and implements.

I have been kinky since I was 6. I had the same desire to reach out and to learn and to participate. But because I had real life adults in my life who had been affected by this stuff I KNEW it wasn’t safe to do. I KNEW that I risked getting people hurt. Which is why, as an adult now, I advocate that minors stay the fuck out of kink. I understand that some of us were technically able to handle some elements of it when we were under 18. But I also understand that it IS NOT SAFE for that to occur. Not in the world we live in or the society we have to survive.

You need to take a step back from your personal experiences and understand that without access to safe information and guidance, kink can be dangerous, and that minors cannot safely access that information without putting themselves and the adults making that information at risk. The kink community has been FIRM on this. Minors need to stay away from kink. For their safety but also for the safety of those of us adults who can have our literal lives ruined and ended if a minor invades our spaces. You should not be advocating for minors in kink and you have crossed over that line a few times in this post. You need to stop.

I did not say that minors could trespass on 18+ spaces. 18+ spaces are 18+. A picnic in a park is not an 18+ space, nor is a pub at lunchtime. Those are both spaces which have actual literal children running about, at the same time as the munch. These kind of events are categorically different to a play party. A non-sexual social event where people aren’t even having explicit discussions isn’t going to get people arrested.

Under 18s should never be in play spaces or even evening munches tbh. There are maybe 1-2 events in london that it might be OK for them to attend. None of these are places where there is workshop stuff, sale of kit, or anything. Literally just a group of people talking in a public space. Knowing who the underage kids who want to get into the scene are so they can’t sneak into places they shouldn’t be seems sensible. 

The ago of consent here is 16 – legally there isn’t a distinction between play with a 17 year old and play with a 70 year old, unless you take a photo. 

However, I can see your point that there’s risk to adults involved. I don’t think the risk is that high for the specific things I’ve mentioned, like munches in public spaces, but I can see an argument for not blurring the line.

I think it might be worth drawing a distinction between involvement in the kink scene and exploring kinky things in private. I really don’t think that freaking out about 16/17 year olds exploring kink in their own bedrooms is warranted, and I think telling them not to do that seems like not the job of uninvolved adults in the kink scene. 

Okay, but here’s what you’re not getting. I’ve been to many a munch. In order to protect ourselves, in order to make sure that we’re allowed to keep meeting at whatever restaurant we’ve chosen for our munches, we have to keep minors out of that space. We get private rooms so that we can explicitly discuss kink. Munches are not teen-friendly, at least where I am. Maybe it’s because I live in a very conservative state, I don’t know, but it doesn’t really matter that the munch is taking place in the daytime.

@toodomforyou Your thoughts? Am I totally off base?

Ok, so that’s why I was really, really not talking about munches in general.

I was talking about stuff like sunday afternoon pub munches in the main room of the pub. The kind where there are kids in the same room, because it’s a just a pub. Or a park on a bank holiday. These are a chunk of the munches we have where I am. And like, having a 17 year old at a munch that is under 25s only does not seem like a huge deal, if it’s in a space where there are minors there anyway. 

Specifically places in public areas, not private back rooms. 

It must be a cultural difference, then. There are no middle of the pub/restaurant munches in my chunk of the US. They’re held separately from the rest of the place, and they’re all 18+.