this is possibly one of the greatest descriptions of asexuality I have ever seen
Tag: asexuality
Those perceptions that functioning in purity culture as an asexual girl is somehow easier are all complete nonsense.
Sure, you may not have to bury yourself in shame for every sexual thought, but you’re still taught to see yourself as a commodity that you have no choice in giving away. It might alleviate some of the pressure in the moment–give you an external excuse to avoid having sex right now–but it’s all about “saving it for your future husband.” It’s training young girls to hinge their choices and their bodily autonomy off of a man they haven’t even met yet. Everything comes back to the Imaginary Future Husband and his rights over you. We were literally told how we’d be betraying him by kissing someone else, or having sexual thoughts about anyone but him. You think there was any exception for those of us betraying him by not having interest in him at all?
Don’t want that husband? Don’t want to have sex on your wedding night? Too bad, that’s what you’re here for. Bonus points on the relgious spin on the “soulmate” idea, where if you feel like this you’re resisting the Perfect Man god already has picked out for you–how dare you refuse his gift! How ungrateful!
Purity culture is never about girls not ever having sex; it’s about men’s obsession with the idea of having a girl who has no sexual experiences but them. It’s about putting control of women’s sexuality in the hands of men they haven’t even met yet. It’s about keeping food unspoiled so you can eat it later.
A woman who always remains disinterested in sex isn’t seen as “keeping herself pure” forever–she’s seen as a piece of meat at the grocery store that no one buys and it just goes rotten and gets wasted.
I’d argue sexual purity as a concept is doubly dangerous to asexual girls.
The thing about sexual purity is that it doesn’t acknowledge asexuality as a possibility. The thing about sexual purity is that it almost always goes hand-in-hand with ‘homosexuality is an abomination’, ‘sex is exclusively for making babies’ (or failing that, only acceptable within marriage), ‘women are not meant to desire sex’ and ‘wives are supposed to satisfy their husbands wants and needs’.
Asexual women face the usual threat of rape/retaliation for saying ‘‘no’‘ to men. Whether or not she’s waiting for marriage doesn’t enter into it.
But in addition to that, an asexual woman who doesn’t know she’s asexual, but DOES ‘know’ that sex is something you endure out of love or respect for her husband, is not going to see anything wrong with not wanting to have or enjoy sex with her husband.
Compulsory heterosexuality doesn’t just harm gay men and lesbians by forcing them to hide or repress themselves for fear of violence. It also harms them, and asexuals, by denying that you can *be* anything other than straight.
*LOTS* of people who aren’t straight have entered into a heterosexual marriage. These days some people feel safe enough to consider The Closet to be dishonesty or cowardice rather than the survival strategy it is. But there have been and continue to be plenty of queer people who are well into adulthood before they realize they AREN’T cisgender or straight.
I have friends who didn’t consider, couldn’t consider, questioning or exploring their gender until their mid-twenties. And I’ve met multiple lesbians, 40-60 who were married and had multiple kids prior to divorce.
As for myself, an asexual woman in a conservative part of the country: if I had been born in one of the dozens of isolated little towns, or if my family had been devoutly rather than casually religious, there is a 90% chance I would have unquestioningly married my first and only boyfriend, endured sex, have multiple children, and felt guilty and dissatisfied the whole time because SURPRISE! I’M NOT ACTUALLY STRAIGHT! I thought I was resisting temptation and my ‘‘‘reward’‘ for staying ‘‘pure’‘ was a marriage I didn’t know I could opt out of.
to constantly bring up the use of sex-denial as an abuse tactic in discussions about asexuals dating non-asexuals is to carefully try and associate the two in people’s minds.
this is a concept i’ve been looking for the words for for days now.
to be honest, this was the unspoken main point of many of the arguments i’ve made up until now.
and i’m glad i was finally able to put my finger on it and say it concisely.
this is not a new idea. I’ve heard, from straight people, for years, that if i were to date a “normal” person, I’d be abusing them. Just for being asexual. And in a relationship they consented to being in and are in no obligation to stay in. Suggesting that sex-repulsed people are abusing their partners is far from new.
ooh hoo I have a lot of thoughts about this. cw for discussions of domestic abuse, sexual assault, rape.
forcing sex on anyone w/out consent or by coercion is rape.
queer/asexual/bisexual people are already at greater risk for intimate domestic abuse. we are MORE LIKELY to be raped or assaulted by a partner than other demographics simply because of our identities.
framing asexuality as inherently abusive is a form of violence against asexual people, many of whom are also queer/abuse survivors/women/neurodivergent.
denial of sex AS AN ABUSE TACTIC is part and parcel with other forms of abuse- denial of emotional intimacy, emotional abuse, and physical abuse. it is meant to extract something from the partner being targeted, or to break down their willpower. it must have the effect and intention of deliberately hurting the partner, then after the partner caves the sex will be given again.
nobody in any relationship is required to have sex with anyone, at any time. that’s why marital rape exists as a concept. you are the sole owner and arbiter of your own body. you do not OWE sex to anybody. you choose to have sex with a partner when and if you both consent to it.
if you don’t want to be in a relationship with a person who doesn’t want or can’t have sex, who has a low libido, who doesn’t want to have the kind of sex that you enjoy, then DON’T get into a relationship with them. It’s that simple. same if you realize you and your partner’s sexual needs don’t align later on. either find a compromise that works for both parties, or break up.
asexual people aren’t abusing anyone simply by existing. we aren’t trying to ‘trap’ anyone into an unpleasant relationship. we all deserve to have our needs met, but it’s absolutely essential to have your partner’s needs respected too.
^^^^^^
This. framing asexuals and arospec folks as abusive by denying sex for existing as they are is two things in one:
2.
An identity attack via weaponizing the victim’s very own identity to gaslight/neg them into sex COMBINED WITH another violently disgusting Identity attack via script-flipping-based, smokescreen for projecting the -actual abuser’s- entitlement ONTO the victim, so that victim looks like the bad guy and therefore deserves to be coerced until they give in, or abused, or tricked and/or have thier bodies forced upon, because thier partner/friend/whoever wants to have sex with them so OBVIOUSLY they deserve to and the ace/bi person’s Just Being Really Mean By Refusing To Fuck Them!! Waah!
™
And yes, I am speaking from experience. i’ve had to throw out a garbage man from my life who was once a friend of almost 20 yrs for this exact fuckery. Real turd in the pillow.
It’s another facet of Rape Culture based entitlement and we see this fuckety-ass batshit flung at Queer/Bi/Acespec and Arospec folks all the goddamn time.
this is a post from that era of discourse i’ve been discussing a lot today.
just to give everyone a feel of what we were saying about it at the time.
It always comes down to the fact that we are not perceived as sexually available. Always. That’s why they hate us.
activists at barnard college providing “labels”, photographed by susan rennie and published in off our backs: a women’s newsjournal vol. 3 no. 6, february 1973
Wow, David Jay really time traveled back to 1973 to start inventing asexuality. 😮
This makes my heart so happy
Just for the purposes of authentication…
Here’s a link to where you can view the image in-context (you must have a jstor account, which is free if you’re okay with only reading 6 papers a month, if you do not already have institutional access). It turns out that this image, along with another, was intended to be published in the previous issue of off our backs, but was not received in time.
Here’s the article that that image was supposed to accompany (apologies for the fact that this is another jstor link). It turns out this was from an event called “Lesbian/Feminist Dialogue” that those young women (from the Lesbian Activists at Barnard) were supporting. Now, before we get the hue and cry about “they weren’t really talking about asexuality in the sense that you mean it!!!!11! they were just spitballing label ideas,” here’s what the author of the article, Frances Chapman, had to say about it:
“I attended the workshop on asexuality lead by Barbara Getz. According to Barbara, asexuality is an orientation that regards a partner as nonessential to sex, and sex as nonessential to a satisfying relationship.”
Obviously not quite the definition we used today, but decently close to it.
So, everyone’s treating this as if it were untouchable ancient history.
But it was 1973. There’s a good chance that many of the women involved here are still alive. They’d be in their mid-late 60′s now.
So. Who wants to go find them?
I found a recording of some of the speeches/talks from the event: http://credo.library.umass.edu/view/full/mums741-b268-i004
I just read this super sad post about this girl who’s asexual and married and everyone is basically telling her that she doesn’t deserve her husband/she’s just a prude/she should just do it anyway.
So I want to tell you all right now that if people tell you this, or if they tell you you’ll never have a relationship, it is BULLSHIT.
My husband is asexual and I’m not. He’s sex repulsed, we don’t have sex, we never have.
And it doesn’t matter to me. You know what does? He does. His mental health and wellbeing matter to me. Because he is my best friend and he’s one of the smartest, kindest, funniest people I’ve ever met. And he’s had people tel him that he’s broken and it makes me SO ANGRY because they are WRONG.
Being different doesnt mean you’re broken.
If you don’t like sex/don’t want it/etc. Do not let anyone tell you that you’re inferior because you’re not.
Do not let anyone convice you that you’ll never have a relationship because they’re wrong(if you want one).
You are not broken, and it will be okay.This made me feel really good. Remember this, for all my ace spectrum friends out there
#it’s really reassuring to hear from the partner #the one who’s not ace #but is totally cool with having no sex #loves her husband anyway #is in a stable and happy relationship #it’s such a relief when you discover that asexuality is a thing #that you’re okay #but then you start to wonder if it means your only chance at not ending up alone is finding someone else who’s also ace #but no #turns out it’s not #that’s really good to hear #so #thanks #so ace #so space
I hope you don’t mind me reblogging your tags but these are my feelings EXACTLY
I’m always a little nervous that I’m not “good enough” for a “real relationship” because sex isn’t on the table. So yeah, these stories are reassuring
The amount of pressure from society to have sex is incredible. We’re told it’s linked to relationship health and if you’re not willing to do every damn thing you’re labeled a prude. It’s incredibly disheartening, especially considering how one’s libido can change over the years even if you’re not ace. Nice to see a supportive piece from a partner.
OK, kids, buckle up it’s story time.
When I got married, I hadn’t had sex yet. Waiting until marriage was important to me, so that’s what I did. My wedding night was the first time I had sex.
It sucked.
I figured, ok, this is new for both of us, it’s probably going to take some practice.
A year later? It still sucked We tried a lot of different stuff. A lot of different stuff.
It sucked so bad, we even bought a copy of “Sex for Dummies”.
(it didn’t help)
I started working late so I didn’t go to bed at the same time as my husband. Every time he would travel for work, I’d be grateful that I didn’t have to go through the awkwardness of avoiding his advances when I went to bed.
He didn’t think it was healthy for a newlywed couple to have sex less than once a week. So we scheduled it. Repeat, scheduled intimacy. I thought I was putting on a brave face and doing what I needed to do to maintain a good relationship.
Because I had no idea that asexuality was a thing.
I talked to my husband, told him I didn’t like sex. He didn’t understand. I lost track of how many times I said: “It’s not that I don’t want to have sex with you. I don’t want to have sex with anyone.”
So it was established, Amber doesn’t like sex.
But we still did it. Because I wanted my husband to be happy. Sometimes halfway through, I’d start crying.
And he’d always be supportive, and apologize.
After he finished.
So when I found out about asexuality, and told him how I felt, he suggested I go to a doctor. Because obviously there was something wrong with me.
So I went to a doctor.
(surprise, surprise, I’m perfectly healthy)
Then I told my mom. When she suggested meds to improve my sex drive, I broke down in tears. I told her there was nothing wrong with me. And my mom has been 100% supportive of my orientation ever since. When people ask if I’m a lesbian, she teaches them about asexuality.
But anyway back to my journey of self-discovery
So I tell my husband, I’m asexual, I don’t want to have sex. You are not asexual, you do want to have sex. One of us is going to be miserable in this relationship, and I’m tired of it being me. I love you too much to make you miserable for the rest of your life, but I love myself too much to be miserable for the rest of my life. We might have to face the fact that we’re not right for each other.
So his immediate response is “no, I can change, I’ll do anything, divorce is not an option, etc”
But I can’t exactly ask him to stop wanting to have sex. Because that’s not how allosexual people work. And he can’t seduce me into wanting to have sex, because that’s not how asexual people work.
Anyway. He cries, I cry, we decide on marriage counseling to help our comunication.
Because we’d been married for almost 6 years by this point, and had been together for 3 years before that, and we still can’t really talk about what we want (or don’t want) in regards to sex.
So we go to counselling for 6 weeks. The first 3 sessions individually, and the last 3 together. During the together sessions, the therapist would prompt us with a question, and we’d talk to each other, being completely honest about things.
During (what turned out to be) our last session, I’d finally had enough. I’d had enough of being embarrassed about what anyone else would think. Enough of the gender roles I was being forced into. Enough of paying someone to watch me talk to my husband. Enough of pretending to salvage a relationship that I had been increasingly avoiding over the past 2 years, and I said:
“Josh, I love you. We have communication problems, but we’ve been together almost ten years and I’m willing to work through those if you think we can make it work. But I am never having sex with you again.”
(At this point, the therapist who’d been trying to get us to communicate put down her notebook and said, ok I think we’re done.)
Then and only then, did he agree to file for divorce.
—————–
I say all that to say this:
Don’t you dare fucking tell me that asexual representation doesn’t matter. I would have six years of my life back if I had known.
And if you’re in a relationship, talk to each other oh my God. About everything. What dream you had last night. That song from scout camp that randomly gets stuck in your head. The reason you don’t like sweet potato. That embarrassing thing you did in third grade that still makes you mad when you think about it. If you and your partner can share these tiny, intimate details, talking about sex is no big deal. And it takes practice, so practice.
————–
On a happy note, now, 3 years after the divorce, I am in a happy, stable relationship with another ace. And if you happen to ask my mom how I’m doing, she’ll tell you “I’ve never seen my baby girl happier.”
It gets better. But it’s up to you to make it that way.
@theonetheonlyjordanelizabeth please read this ❤️ I may be sex repulsed but I know that I love you and thats what matters ✨
I know this is already really long and really informative, but I also wanted to add a partner’s perspective. I too, have an ace fiancee. I knew about it before our relationship. I didn’t know it was a thing until I met her, and that was huge to me because I learned something new and also came to understand an old friend a little better.
I, on the other hand, am not ace. I am at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I am pansexual, and she has a hard time I think coming to terms with the fact that I don’t want to make her have sex.
Like, ‘Really?’ you might ask me. Like really is my only reply. I have loved her for a long time now, and being we met over Tumblr and we knew one another before the relationship, sex isn’t a big deal in our relationship. and I can think of at least ten of my friends who would feel the same way right now.
ASEXUALITY IS A REAL THING, LOVING, SWEET ACE RELATIONSHIPS ARE REAL! Just because your partner wants sex doesn’t make you broken. Just because you don’t want sex doesn’t mean you should have to force yourself to do so.
Just be honest with one another, love one another. If a relationship can’t survive a healthy, honest conversation, then it wasn’t a very strong relationship to begin with.
TL;DR People who can’t see past sex as a ‘core’ in a relationship with someone ace/sex repulsed is an asshole.
I saw this magazine in a grocery store and I immediately started freaking out. I have no idea what the article is about, because I was leaving checkout and had to rush out of there, but just knowing that asexuals are spotlighted in one that’s carried in stores makes me very happy.
You can read the article here
There are asexuals who find themselves attracted to television characters as they get to know them over the course of a season, but feel no stirring in their loins for the actors who play those characters.
That explains so much
My Path To Becoming A Third Parent – The Establishment
In the state of California third parent adoption has recently been made legal, the result of decades of fights by queer couples whose sperm and egg donors wanted to contribute more than genetics. We are, as far as we know, the first set of parents to take advantage of this law which includes a straight couple, and definitely the first to include an asexual, but we know that what we are doing is not without legacy.
David Jay, founder of AVEN (asexuality.org) tells of his journey to become a third parent.
Those perceptions that functioning in purity culture as an asexual girl is somehow easier are all complete nonsense.
Sure, you may not have to bury yourself in shame for every sexual thought, but you’re still taught to see yourself as a commodity that you have no choice in giving away. It might alleviate some of the pressure in the moment–give you an external excuse to avoid having sex right now–but it’s all about “saving it for your future husband.” It’s training young girls to hinge their choices and their bodily autonomy off of a man they haven’t even met yet. Everything comes back to the Imaginary Future Husband and his rights over you. We were literally told how we’d be betraying him by kissing someone else, or having sexual thoughts about anyone but him. You think there was any exception for those of us betraying him by not having interest in him at all?
Don’t want that husband? Don’t want to have sex on your wedding night? Too bad, that’s what you’re here for. Bonus points on the relgious spin on the “soulmate” idea, where if you feel like this you’re resisting the Perfect Man god already has picked out for you–how dare you refuse his gift! How ungrateful!
Purity culture is never about girls not ever having sex; it’s about men’s obsession with the idea of having a girl who has no sexual experiences but them. It’s about putting control of women’s sexuality in the hands of men they haven’t even met yet. It’s about keeping food unspoiled so you can eat it later.
A woman who always remains disinterested in sex isn’t seen as “keeping herself pure” forever–she’s seen as a piece of meat at the grocery store that no one buys and it just goes rotten and gets wasted.
there’s also the ever-present wonder if perhaps you’re not really asexual and are just in fact really, really repressed which is a whole other can of worms that is just as damaging to deal with.
like honestly the lgbt community isnt the sexual weirdos club. its the anti-cishet club. its literally a group of people who were brought together by shared experiences of Not Being Cishet. thats the whole point holy shit.
the problem with cishet aces is that they’re cishet. thats why they’re not lgbt. stop screaming aphobia when this has nothing to do with aces and aros at all.
…So what I’m getting from this is aroaces are lgbt+
I’ve quit checking ages today but the OP sounds so young lmao “people who were brought together by the shared experience of Not Being Cishet” “that’s the whole point” what kind of milquetoast ahistoric crap
I’m just glad there are folks actually preserving our community history so this sanitized bullshit isn’t all we have left
how is it ahistoric to say the lgbt community was formed by people who aren’t cishet for people who aren’t cishet?
#that’s literally what happened?
this is exactly what i’m talking about
this is an imaginary Candyland version of how our community came to be what it is
it ignores the struggles that even lesbians had to have in order to be recognized alongside gay men
it ignores the struggles bi/pan/ply people still have to be fully recognized and not just shunted out with accusations of passing privilege
it ignores the massive transphobia/transmisogyny that still goes on today, which resulted in the queer trans women of color who were instrumental at Stonewall being immediately shoved right back out of the community and having to fight for their position in it, which is still happening
it ignores that the riots happened at Stonewall which was full of QPOC because those QPOC weren’t welcome at other Gay establishments of the time
it imagines a golden age of harmony between all of our disparate members and our disparate communities
it imagines that the Queer community never existed, never defined itself by opposing the assimilationist politics of the rest of the community
it imagines a Great Charter in which we long ago clearly delineated who does and doesn’t belong with us, based on definitions we weren’t even using until a decade ago
it lets cis people within the community duck their cis privilege by painting “cishets” as the Ultimate Oppressors Of All Of Us so they don’t have to address that they are literal oppressors of trans people, literal oppressors who are right here in the community, alongside the people they oppress, every day
it ignores everything about our global community in favor of a not-even-real version of how shit went down in the USA
it ignores that ace people have been in the community for decades under the not-straight-not-gay definition of bi that is still used today in many places
it ignores so many other things that are foundational to us, and i’m honestly too tired to list them all. it imagines so many things that didn’t happen in order to pretend there was Harmony Until The Ace Nation Attacked and i’m so, so tired of it
Also, OP, Ace people aren’t “Sexual weirdos”.
asexuality should be taught in health classes. bisexuality should be taught in health classes. being gay/lesbian should be taught in health classes. pansexuality should be taught in health classes. all sexualities should be taught in health classes. can’t believe this is a thing people are legitimately arguing about.
Asexuality should not be taught in health classes because teenagers are still young and may not know whether they are capable of feeling sexual attraction or not why is this so hard for you people to get Jesus Christ
Car safety should not be taught because kids are too young to know if they’ll ever own a car and might not be capable of driving one
Personal experience here: I got my sexual health education in Grade 6 in the early 1980s. The sum total of discussion about bisexuality in that textbook?
“Same-sex crushes in adolescence is normal, and do not necessarily indicate that you’ll become homosexual.”
Needless to say, not having any accurate information that bisexuality existed really screwed me up when I did become sexually active 8 years later.
I really don’t understand the second poster’s point of view here.
Sure, teenagers may not know whether they are capable of feeling sexual attraction or not at this point in time, but they’re not stupid.
If you tell a teenager something like “some people don’t feel sexual attraction until later in their development, and some people never end up feeling sexual attraction at all,” they’ll still figure it out if/when it hits them.
In the mean time, as a thirty-three year old woman who spent FIFTEEN YEARS waiting for “sexual attraction” to finally kick in, before I finally learned enough about asexuality to realize that it applied to me?
I could have really used that fucking health class.
Sixteen to seventeen years, here, and I could have really used something other than: it’ll happen eventually – you’ll get married someday, and “your desire will be for your husband”. (That’s Genesis 3:16.) Would’ve been really nice to know that there were options that were not marrying a man or (in)voluntary celibacy. I was never interested in marriage, especially the skewed view I was given of what it should be, and the thought of answering to a man in my everyday life made me cringe. So, yeah. Not telling me it was an option just made me think I was wrong somehow, especially with all the talk of everyone struggling with sexual urges. Don’t even get me started on “True Love Waits.”
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