I was watching Buffy today and noticed a conversation that sounded just like one between a certain hunter and his angel…
Background – Buffy gets a job at a fast food restaurant when Spike walks in, Castiel gets a job at a convenient store when Dean walks in.
Not only are the lines similar but the characters in each show seem to be going through something similar. Both Buffy and Castiel are dealing with depression. One thing I found very interesting was how both of their depression is linked to heaven and loss. Cas’s guilt over the angels falling and then being kicked out of the bunker. Buffy was pulled out of heaven and then Giles decided to leave. They both act as though they’re not happy to see Spike/Dean but we see later that Buffy and Spike end up having sex and Castiel goes off with Dean to hunt (and then there’s that lovely fanfiction gap). As far as scorned lovers go, the parallel flips a little, with Spike and Castiel feeling rejected, although Cas is usually the one leaving. Now for the gifs – those smiles are so similar it kills me! Both Spike and Dean tell Buffy/Cas how much better they deserve and then try getting the other person to leave with them. Spike tells Buffy he can provide for her and Dean tries to entice Cas with a case.
Anyway, this is my first time meta blogging so I hope I did ok!
Buffy 6×12 Doublemeat Palace
Supernatural 9×6 Heaven Can’t Wait
This is so perfectly accurate I cannot even begin to describe
You did great and I’d like to point out (because I think it validates this meta) Buffy has been referenced on Supernatural more than once. Harry and Ed asked “What would Buffy do?” and the fan favorite line from French Mistake “If there’s a key then there must be a lock” is a quote from a Buffy episode (I don’t remember which one but I know Dawn said it). I’m sure there are more parallels/references but I’m not well-versed in the Buffy universe
Ben Edlund, who was a writer/producer on Supernatural during seasons 1-8, worked on the Buffy spinoff Angel. Ben left Supernatural before this episode was made but he was there long enough to be influential and I’m sure there are many Buffy fans on the Supernatural team. Executive Producer Robert Singer has said he’s a fan and thinks Buffy is very well written show
Misha has said that in this scene he was told to react to Dean “like a jilted lover” (x)
I was watching Buffy today and noticed a conversation that sounded just like one between a certain hunter and his angel…
Background – Buffy gets a job at a fast food restaurant when Spike walks in, Castiel gets a job at a convenient store when Dean walks in.
Not only are the lines similar but the characters in each show seem to be going through something similar. Both Buffy and Castiel are dealing with depression. One thing I found very interesting was how both of their depression is linked to heaven and loss. Cas’s guilt over the angels falling and then being kicked out of the bunker. Buffy was pulled out of heaven and then Giles decided to leave. They both act as though they’re not happy to see Spike/Dean but we see later that Buffy and Spike end up having sex and Castiel goes off with Dean to hunt (and then there’s that lovely fanfiction gap). As far as scorned lovers go, the parallel flips a little, with Spike and Castiel feeling rejected, although Cas is usually the one leaving. Now for the gifs – those smiles are so similar it kills me! Both Spike and Dean tell Buffy/Cas how much better they deserve and then try getting the other person to leave with them. Spike tells Buffy he can provide for her and Dean tries to entice Cas with a case.
Anyway, this is my first time meta blogging so I hope I did ok!
Alright my dear sassy anon, I apologize for the late response but I wanted to do this right and school had been getting in the way. So buckle up. I’m going to take you for a ride. *cracks knuckles*
Moving on to my overall argument. Let’s look again at Cain’s speech and dissect that, shall we?
This is a perfect parallel to me. In this scenario Crowley is Abbadon. So do you remember when Abbadon was possessing Colette in 9×11?
And then she has a very interesting conversation with Cain, that hints very stronglyat a previous romantic relationship between them.
And Abbadon then goes on to literally tell Cain “Well, if I can’t have you, than neither can she!” before manipulating Colette’s body to the point that Cain attempts to stab her with the blade as she smokes out. This parallel between Abbadon and Crowley later becomes incredibly important because of what happens after the fight. Moving ahead to 10×14 and what do we see?
What is this!? The obvious Colette parallel being chosen over the Abbadon parallel? The physical embodiement of Cain/Dean’s addiction being put in the hands of Colette to take care of?
The Abbadon parallel looking visibly aggrieved about being passed over for the Colette parallel? The Abbadon parallel feeling wounded and wronged about Cain/Dean’s actions because of the history they share?
It must all be a coincidence right? Ok well let’s look at the next part of Cain’s speech.
The second person close to himself that Cain killed was Colette, and this effectively places Cas in that position in the lineup of future murders. I suppose you could argue that Dean technically was the one who killed Abbadon, but by giving Dean the Mark for the express purpose of killing Abbadon Cain essentially signed her death warrant. She was the last person of close relationship with Cain to die, putting her parallel, Crowley, as the first to die. So my first point of Cas being Colette is simply the order in which he appears in the Cain speech. Beyond that you had asked when Cas had pulled Dean back from the edge of darkness. Well…
Cas has been intimately involved in the removal of the Mark. I have my own complaints about the show has been writing Cas as going out hunting for cures for Dean and not staying with him, but the fact remains that that is what he’s been doing.He’s literally put everything else on hold to try to fix Dean.You mentioned that Cas hasn’t been around Dean for a lot of his struggles with the Mark and I would argue that there is a pretty obvious reason for that. It makes more sense for Cas to be the one out doing this because he’s an angel. Thinking about this logically, one person should stay with Dean and one person should be out doing the legwork the search for the cure requires. Once it was clear that the search for the cure was going to take them to Cain, why the hell would you ever send Sam to do that? An angel didn’t even stand a chance against him, what’s Sam going to do? It’s totally valid that Cas be the one out searching and it doesn’t diminish his feelings for Dean or Dean’s for him. You don’t have to be around someone all the time to love them.
But mostly I just think that Cas is Dean’s Colette because he fits the way Cain described her.
“I’ve tried. I’ve tried, Colette. To see myself as you did."
"I know you watch over me still.”
“She forgave me.”
Basically I just feel like Cas loves Dean the way Colette loved Cain. Unselfishly and unconditionally. Complete devotion right to the end. Always putting Cain’s needs before her own and doing what’s best for him, literally to her dying breath. So now we have the final part of Cain’s speech and I’ll be wrapping up my rant soon here.
Your message that Sam is Dean’s Colette was honestly just really surprising for me to read because I thought it was totally obvious that Dean and Sam were Cain and Abel respectively in this scenario. They are literally their descendants. Lucifer wanted to possess Abel and Lucifer wanted to possess Sam. And then Cain said the whole “You’re living my life in reverse” line. Sam is Abel in this scenario because that’s where Cain placed him in the lineup of people Dean would kill. Abel’s spot. Not to mention that Abel is Cain’s younger brother and Cain gave up his very soul to save him, just like Dean did for Sam. I mean, in terms of parallels I think the Dean/Cain and Sam/Abel links are possibly the single most obvious parallel in the entire series. Unless your argument is that Sam is somehow simultaneously Colette and Abel, which, if it is I’d be interested to read.
So in conclusion, that’s why I think that Cas is Dean’s Colette, although I will admit that sometimes when I really try to remove the Destiel-colored glasses entirely I have considered that Dean doesn’t have a Colette (thanks ephemeral-castiel). What I’m saying is that I think that Cas fills the roles that Colette filled for Cain, but I do think that in the end Dean will learn how to overcome his issues on his own. I don’t think that any one person, not Sam or Cas, would be able to stop Dean just by begging, because that didn’t work while he was a demon and because this is the season of self-discovery and I really think Dean will be able to find this strength in himself. He really needs to find his own will to live at this point in time, rather than just hanging around because Sam and Cas need him. So yeah, that’s why I think that IF Dean has a Colette, it’s Cas.
Do you remember how afraid some people were that would introduce a female character to be Dean’s Collette at some point? I don’t think anyone’s worried about that anymore.
Oh, I bet there are some people who are pretty worried that they WON’T…
Disclaimer: this post is (extremely long) absolutely off the edge of the map into the realm of out there headcanon and other crap you should not be applying to the show itself because the show itself…
What I said was, “And if they have the space, budget, actor participation, and network support to make this story happen….”
I was merely making a point about queerbaiting, in which there has to be a deliberate intention to mislead. I firmly believe that canon Destiel is part of the story we’re being told by the writers, while allowing for the fact that network television is a complicated thing. If they say, “We were going to make Destiel canon but then XYZ happened and it was out of our control,” then it’s still not queerbaiting because their intentions were to canonize it before XYZ happened.
And no, I don’t think Jensen Ackles would stand in the way of Destiel. He’s got a terrible reputation when it comes to this, but it’s largely undeserved. There are only so many nice, considerate, fan-sensitive ways you can say, “Dean and Cas share a profound bond but I can’t tell you anything about where we’re going with that specifically because if I out Dean as bisexual and in love with Cas during a convention I will probably get fired,” before you just start to repeat yourself.
That would be a major spoiler along the lines of Jennifer Aniston saying in an interview during the height of the Friends craze, “Oh, by the way, Rachel is still in love with Ross and we just filmed a great little scene where she gets off the plane to France so she can stay with him.” It’s not gonna happen. The only way we’re ever going to get confirmation of Destiel is from the actual show, nobody is allowed to confirm it at a convention. It takes the shine off it, especially when such a large part of the fanbase is invested in seeing it happen.
Misha Collins doesn’t get nearly the amount of shit Jensen does for avoidance of Destiel questions, and he’s the guy who intentionally misunderstood a fan question about “canon” and made jokes about being aerodynamic. He’s just better at it. He’s better at avoiding and misinterpreting and giving non-answers. But even Misha still has moments where he has to search for exactly the right word that confirms nothing and yet isn’t a lie.
When you take the fans who think they deserve confirmation because they have no idea how network TV works (the concept of a will-they-or-won’t-they viewerbait relationship is not new or difficult to understand, people), and you put those fans in a room with a guy who has to confirm nothing in order to keep his bosses happy but isn’t really good at public speaking, you get the fandom-wide interpretation that Jensen Ackles hates Destiel.
May I remind you that he’s already played a character who has a sexual relationship with his male best friend in Blonde? Clearly he has no personal moral qualms about the concept. Jesus Christ people, if you want proof that he knows Destiel is a thing and doesn’t hate it, watch the show.
Watch Dean interact with John, watch Dean cradle Sam’s dying body and scream his name, watch that beautiful emotional breakdown in the season two finale, and then tell me that Jensen Ackles is not an Oscar-quality actor who knows how to tell a story and has a deeply-felt love for the character of Dean Winchester.
Look at how present he always is in a scene. Even if he has no lines, he’s always inhabiting Dean, and he knows why Dean does everything he does. This is the guy who offhandedly headcanoned that Dean probably turned tricks to feed Sam, a fact that will never be disclosed in the show but indicates that he knows way more about Dean’s internal life than is portrayed onscreen.
And then try to tell me that all the Dean/Cas scenes were accidental, or not played that way, or that every bi!Dean moment outside of Cas was an accident. Tripping over a table as he blustered out the door because a cute guy hit on Dean was an accident?
Jensen Ackles actively plays Dean as a repressed effemiphobe who draws strength from displays of traditional manhood, and has walked us through nine full seasons of that armor being stripped away to reveal the actual Dean. He’s the one responsible for every time Dean silently eye-fucks Cas, the awkward badge-slide of “Oh god this cute boy is hitting on me,” the quality of Dean’s voice every time he tells Cas he needs him.
Maybe he didn’t play it that way in say, seasons 4 and 5, but we are in season 10, folks. He’s talked to Misha, talked to the writers, talked to fans, and is still playing the Dean and Cas relationship with as much electricity as Cas’ first appearance. On purpose.
I mean, obviously I don’t know him personally and have no outside confirmation of any of these claims. But I know when I’m being told a quality story by a quality actor. The fact that he kinda sucks at public speaking doesn’t change that.
When he gets the script that includes the stage direction “Dean and Castiel kiss,” he will not be surprised. He is the main caretaker and cultivator, and the biggest fan and protector, of the character of Dean Winchester.
that’s the face of a man who’s questioning every gay stereotype he’s ever been told and realizing two rugged hunters can fall in love
AND HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE COLOURS IN THE SCREEN OR IT’S JUST ME.
do you mean the neon Texan Star beer sign being the blue/purple/pink of the bisexual flag?
coincidently, that’s the brand of beer Dean and Cas are drinking
and the brand that the bartender has to sign for before the cupid hooks him up with his true love
it’s also the brand delivered to the gas station in Heaven Can’t Wait 9.06 that Cas had to sign for while talking to Dean
and they were even positioned the same as the bartender and his soon to be bf
one behind the counter working, the other in front of the counter like a customer
but I’m sure people will say I’m reading too much into this
as predicted people are saying the beer was only used because they didn’t want to make a new prop
check out all the boxes in the store room, I wonder why they didn’t use one of those for the delivery
peanuts, yummy, and they’re in a generic brown box perfect for deliveries
this guy is delivering newspapers and Cas didn’t have to sign for them
Sacrifice 8.23 has two guys, one working and the other a customer, that are interrupted by a Texan Star beer delivery that needs to be signed for
Heaven Can’t Wait 9.06 has two guys, one working and the other a customer, that are interrupted by a Texan Star beer delivery that needs to be signed for
Jerry Wanek has only directed two episodes (Slice Girls 7.13 and Captives 9.14), his main job at Supernatural is as a producer. He started out as a production designer in seasons 1-6, which means he was responsible for the overall look of the show (costumes, props, sets, lighting etc). That’s why he tweets about the props, they’re his area of expertise and he takes special interest in them
He was given a producer credit for both of these episodes
Huh. Funny how I’ve never checked that! Thanks 🙂
Wanek is still the production designer, and Serge Ladouceur is the cinematographer. Together, they’re responsible for all the story that isn’t the action and dialog, and there’s a lot of that.
They absolutely re-use elements thematically—there are costume pieces that show up in particular circumstances, like the yellow tie Sam wore in two of the djinn episodes and Dean’s Burgundy Shirt of Loss and Plaid Shirt of Grief.
And then there’s the El Sol beer logo, which shows up when there’s something that seems real but often isn’t, like Dean’s djinn dream in “What Is and What Should Never Be” and Sam’s hallucination in “The Man Who Knew Too Much,” and it’s the beer that Dean is drinking in the green room in “Lucifer Rising,” so it’s definitely possible, and very probable, that the beer logo in “Sacrifice” and “Heaven Can’t Wait” were used because the scenes shared some kind of theme, in the same way that the music cue behind Dean watching Cas through the window linked that scene thematically with Sam watching Amelia and Don through their window.
“Heaven Can’t Wait” is the biggest argument for Destiel EVER.
Both Goodbye Stranger and Meta Fiction were written by Robbie Thompson, and directed by Thomas J. Wright. It’s no coincidence then that were were several common themes shared by these two episodes.
They were stark contrasts to one another in many ways, with Dean and Cas seemingly having switched places at this stage. In Goodbye Stranger, it is Cas who is being controlled by Naomi; in Meta Fiction, Dean is being changed by the Mark of Cain. In Goodbye Stranger, Cas leaves Dean standing in a crypt; in Meta Fiction, Dean leaves Cas standing in a parking lot.
Throughout season 8, and the first half of season 9, it was Dean who showed great concern for Cas and his wellbeing. Now, it is Cas who is showing great concern for Dean. They know each other so well, and they can sense when something is not right. Dean knew Cas wasn’t right when he got back from Purgatory, and Cas sensed right away that there was something different about Dean after seeing him for the first time since he took on the Mark of Cain.
Both episodes end with music being switched on, followed by somber car rides with Sam looking concerned after he knows Dean has had incredibly emotionally draining moments with Cas.
The song that plays at the end of Goodbye Stranger is the episode’s namesake:
Goodbye stranger it’s been nice Hope you find your paradise Tried to see your point of view Hope your dreams will all come true Goodbye Mary, Goodbye Jane Will we ever meet again Feel no sorrow, feel no shame Come tomorrow, feel no pain
In Meta Fiction, the song The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore plays as the episode comes to a conclusion:
Loneliness is the coat you wear A deep shade of blue is always there The sun ain’t gonna shine anymore The moon ain’t gonna rise in the sky Tears are always clouding your eyes When you’re without love
Both incredibly fitting songs, the first about a wayward lover, the second about deep abiding loneliness. It’s also interesting that the song playing in Meta Fiction contains the lyrics “I need you”, which as we all know is something Dean said to Cas in Goodbye Stranger. I know many of us have been wanting a reverse crypt scene, and I think last night we at least got part of one, in a way. Only this time, with a lot less violence, and far more love and concern on Cas’ part. Perhaps this is an indicator of things to come. Perhaps this is an indicator that the angel who knows Dean so well will be the one to break the connection next time.
Both Goodbye Stranger and Meta Fiction were written by Robbie Thompson, and directed by Thomas J. Wright. It’s no coincidence then that were were several common themes shared by these two episodes.
They were stark contrasts to one another in many ways, with Dean and Cas seemingly having switched places at this stage. In Goodbye Stranger, it is Cas who is being controlled by Naomi; in Meta Fiction, Dean is being changed by the Mark of Cain. In Goodbye Stranger, Cas leaves Dean standing in a crypt; in Meta Fiction, Dean leaves Cas standing in a parking lot.
Throughout season 8, and the first half of season 9, it was Dean who showed great concern for Cas and his wellbeing. Now, it is Cas who is showing great concern for Dean. They know each other so well, and they can sense when something is not right. Dean knew Cas wasn’t right when he got back from Purgatory, and Cas sensed right away that there was something different about Dean after seeing him for the first time since he took on the Mark of Cain.
Both episodes end with music being switched on, followed by somber car rides with Sam looking concerned after he knows Dean has had incredibly emotionally draining moments with Cas.
The song that plays at the end of Goodbye Stranger is the episode’s namesake:
Goodbye stranger it’s been nice Hope you find your paradise Tried to see your point of view Hope your dreams will all come true Goodbye Mary, Goodbye Jane Will we ever meet again Feel no sorrow, feel no shame Come tomorrow, feel no pain
In Meta Fiction, the song The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore plays as the episode comes to a conclusion:
Loneliness is the coat you wear A deep shade of blue is always there The sun ain’t gonna shine anymore The moon ain’t gonna rise in the sky Tears are always clouding your eyes When you’re without love
Both incredibly fitting songs, the first about a wayward lover, the second about deep abiding loneliness. It’s also interesting that the song playing in Meta Fiction contains the lyrics “I need you”, which as we all know is something Dean said to Cas in Goodbye Stranger. I know many of us have been wanting a reverse crypt scene, and I think last night we at least got part of one, in a way. Only this time, with a lot less violence, and far more love and concern on Cas’ part. Perhaps this is an indicator of things to come. Perhaps this is an indicator that the angel who knows Dean so well will be the one to break the connection next time.
Why DOES Castiel look down and away when he sees a woman give Dean attention? Putting aside all “because he loves him” knee-jerk responses, what other feelings would motivate him to react like that? Because he loves Anna? Because he feels bad that he’s making Dean risk his life? I just don’t know. Destiel looks more and more canon the longer I spend on tumblr.
I actually edited the sequence of the shots in order to show the parallels; but if anything, I made the top gif look less like Destiel than the actual show. In the episode (S4 Heaven and Hell), Anna pulls Dean to her after stroking his arm and kisses him, and Castiel responds by … staring. They cut from Anna kissing Dean to Castiel’s face and it’s doing this:
Then they cut back to the kiss, and Anna pulls away and tells Dean she forgives him. It’s at this point that Castiel finally looks away.
I kept going back to this part when I first watched the episode because I couldn’t put my finger on what Cas’s expression was supposed to be. One of the big themes of “Heaven and Hell” is how angels don’t have emotions, they don’t feel; they’re marble statues, cold and distant, merciless andriods. And then suddenly Uriel shows up in Dean’s dream and tells him Castiel has this weakness, he likes Dean. Since when do angels have weak spots for people? How can Castiel like Dean if Castiel can’t feel anything? I mean, Castiel was going to follow his orders and kill Anna, and when he said he was sorry and she said, “You don’t know the feeling,” he didn’t argue with her. But he likes Dean? Dean is his weakness?
So I kept going back to Castiel’s expression when Anna kissed Dean and tried to figure out what it was. It doesn’t look like jealousy to me. It’s not anger, disgust, curiosity, or Cas doing his humans-are-strange what-are-these-interlocking-mouth-parts alien thing. It’s not sadness, if he was embarrassed he’d look away, it’s not fondness, he doesn’t look regretful until he turns away. Finally it hit me: it’s longing.
And maybe you could argue that Castiel isn’t longing to be kissing Dean or to be kissed by Anna specifically; maybe Castiel is just longing for that kind of connection, that human, physical connection of being lovers. And that makes sense, but then you are forced to consider the fact that Dean is the only person with whom Castiel has tried to form that kind of connection, the only person to whom Cas has tried to be close.
So, yes, I literally cannot think of any explanation for Castiel’s behavior except that Castiel is in love with Dean. I didn’t even want to ship Destiel. The show made me!
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