People constantly taking Marks pellegrinos tweets out of context, so here’s a few things to clear that up.
So now people are aware that it’s a load of crap what people are saying. Please do research before accusing and spreading rumours, as it is unfair.
// This isn’t exactly related to my blog but I feel it’s important enough to share here, especially since this fandom’s gross hatred of Lucifer *and* Mark Pellegrino is what keeps driving me off this hell-site in the first place.
I get it if y’all don’t like Lucifer, but leave Mark the fuck alone. If this offends you then I’m sure you can find the unfollow button.
-Admin
God, I didn’t know people didn’t like Mark as well. This honestly breaks my heart because I found Lucifer such an intriguing character, with his ability to be adorable and snarky at times, but also able to be scary and remind everyone he is the villian here. And yes, I get some people don’t like him. He’s a flawed character, but people have their own opinions.
Mark isn’t Lucifer. He’s his own goddamn person, and y’all seem to mix up the two. Mark is an extremely nice guy who would never, EVER say or present discrimination or bigotry without proof of reason. Just chill the fuck out. I’ve had the pleasure of seeing nothing but love for Mark, but if you hate him without a providable reason why, then unfollow me right now.
Hatefulness toward Mark is what drove me off Twitter. One person was actually claiming one of his campaigns in support of Attitudes in Reverse stigmatized mental health because it urged people *not* to commit suicide.
People are so quick to throw hate at him because they don’t understand what he stands for, nor do they want to try. They hate and feel self-righteous about it, launch smear campaigns against him, malign his character, and then tell him he’s bullying them when he defends himself.
Fortunately I haven’t come across Mark hate on Tumblr (knocks on all the wood in her apartment), and for that I’m grateful.
Mark Pellegrino is an absolutely wonderful person. He’s kind, funny, wicked smart, and genuinely loves his fans.
If you hate him, best stay away from my blog, because there’s nothing but love for this amazing man here.
What is this shit??????
People have been assuming Mark P. isn’t as supportive of lgbtq+ people as he says he is because of the fact that he believes white people experience racism from poc and that there are no existing economic barriers for anyone in the United States (he believes that queer people don’t have a disadvantage to straight and cis people when finding a job etc.).
He’s a libertarian. He believes BLM is bullshit. He thinks Oprah does not have a disadvantage as a black woman compared to him, a white man. And he’s made countless jokes about his character raping Sam. When people voiced complaints, many of them victims, he called them “r*tarded.” He perpetuates the same minimalization against minorities he claims to hate.
A frequent mistake that straight people make is to believe the only right queer people need is the right for gay marriage, which is not true at all. Bigotry does not end at the law: law is enforced by humans and therefore susceptible to human error—hence BLM. And Hell, conservatives are working to take a lot of protections down. Mark is unsupportive in more ways than he is supportive and doing less than the bare minimum doesn’t cut it. His ableism, his racism, his sexism, and other forms of bigotry still exist whether he thinks so or not, and that affects us.
You know what? I’ve had it. I’ve had it with posting vague shit and having friends come to me in private and say they agree but are too afraid to say anything in public. I’m sick of seeing only a couple other people vague blogging and also being largely publicly ignored. I’m sick of pretending that what’s happening in my fandom isn’t toxic bullying of the worst sort.
So I’m just going to come out and say it.
The Supernatural fandom IS NOT TRASH.
Look, I’m sorry about what’s happened to Euclase. Anyone with a heart would be sorry to see a fellow human and fan bullied and abused. But what I’m seeing now is the bullied becoming the bully. What I’m seeing is a Big Name Fan using her platform to publicly, noisily, and cruelly shit on an entire fandom, as well as going after individuals who don’t support her in the precise way she wants to be supported. 99% plus of us have never done a damn thing to her, and many of us think she’s wonderful, skilled, and amazing. And instead of this being treated as a “a few bad eggs” situation it’s instead become “one bad apple spoils the bunch.” We’re all being told collectively we have to apologize for what a handful of people have done. We’re getting accused of victim blaming. We’re being compared to #notallmen.
I’ve known hundreds of people in the online Supernatural fandom over the years. You know who we predominately are? Queer women suffering from mental illnesses who have ourselves been bullied, assaulted, and/or abused. To compare us to the dominate patriarchal norms of modern society and say that we as an online fandom are sheltering abusers by not calling them out is fucking insane. I’m sorry, I know I’m not making the most cogent argument, but I’ve been watching this go on for weeks and I’m beyond furious. Honest to fucking god if any of us actually knew who was sending the anonymous hate don’t you think we’d expose them? This isn’t a case of “the one frat dude who jokes about rape in the locker room not getting called on it.” This is all of us collectively looking around helplessly going, “we don’t know who is responsible either and we want to see it stop but we don’t know how to help.” And then being told in the most toxic terms that because we don’t know, because we can’t stop the abuse, we are the same as the abusers.
This is fucking bullshit.
A lot of us are standing up and saying we want to help, but unless we say it in a way that accepts culpability we’re getting shot down, accused of peddling platitudes, accused of deliberarely sheltering these horrible people in our midst. That is *fucking nuts.* And seeing it passed off as normal discourse – seeing it go around that the only way I can show support is by agreeing that the fandom that is full of the most wonderful people I’ve ever met is garbage – this so-called discourse being bruited around as normal is the most toxic thing I have personally witnessed in my 20+ years in online fandoms.
I’ve said nothing, because I’m scared, because I don’t want to bring the anger and the anonymous hate and the public shaming by Euclase/EliciaDonze down on myself.
But I have HAD IT.
I have never sent anonymous hate. I have received anonymous hate. I have been in the Supernatural fandom for almost a decade, have made some of my closest friends here, had people who’d never set eyes on me in real life support me through months when I was suicidal and depressed. This fandom *does* en masse believe in Always Keep Fighting. This fandom *is* mostly good people, a family, forming the wonderful support network on which so many of us depend. We’re not a fucking shadow organization spying on our neighbors looking for the Evil one (I’m reminded of that post that includes the line “I saw Goody Procter talking to the devil and she had a bad Steven Universe head canon”). We’re a collective of widely disparate people, the vast majority of whom are just trying to be the best people we can be every day. Yes we make mistakes. Yes we can be unwittingly cruel. Yes Supernatural is a deeply flawed show in a lot of ways. But to say that all of us are party to this deliberate baiting and cruelty is fricken madness and is utterly untrue.
Flat out. If I knew who was sending hate, I’d out them. I’d shame them. I’d ostracized them. I HAVE DONE SO, AS HAVE OTHERS, with the “Desti-ew-er” anti crowd. When we know who the antis are, they DO get called out and left to play their hate games amongst themselves. I’ve seen that happen repeatedly.
We don’t know who is sending the hate to Euclase. We are not sheltering these people intentionally in our midst. Tell me a concrete, actual way I can help and I will do it. But I refuse to condemn my dearest friends, my online family. I refuse to condemn an entire fandom based on the actions of a few. And I flat out refuse to continue to keep my mouth shut about this manipulative bullying simply because I’m scared.
I *am* scared. I don’t want to get hate. I don’t want to bring this storm down on myself.
But the Supernatural fandom as a whole isn’t trash and I’m fucking sick of seeing it called that.
Give us a specific monster to fight and we’ll fight it. Until then, I’m tremendously sorry for the hate I’ve seen Euclase get but I’ve sent none of it, will swear none of my friends have either, and I refuse to apologize for something I have never done – both in that I have never sent anon hate to anyone in my life, and also that I am not knowingly sheltering anyone else who has done so. And I don’t need a personal pat on the back nor am I looking for one. I’m looking to have toxic manipulative bullying stop being tossed around as if it’s normal. I’m sick of all my friends saying privately they agree with my past vague blogs but they’re too scared publicly to speak up. I’m sick of seeing this group become riddled by fear and divided over this insanity.
I’m speaking up.
This – both the anonymous hate AND the public group shaming – has to stop.
This isn’t normal.
I don’t like to get into wank, but I one hundred percent support this. The fandom is made up of wonderful, good people who aren’t hateful. I don’t know why this artist alone gets so much hate, but it’s not representative of the SPN fandom and it shouldn’t be used to defame us.
I too avoid wank and this may lose me followers, but i’m sick of it too. When i first heard about this crap, i felt really bad for the artist concerned. I offered help, advice and support and she basically told me to fuck off before her minions descended to tell me how wrong my response (offering support, WTF?)was. So i blocked her and a whole bunch of other people. WE ARE NOT TRASH, we cannot police what we cannot see, we know there are arseholes in the fandom. I’ve been in this fandom since the beginning, there have always been idiots. but 99% of people are lovely supportive good people. This whole thing is turning into the worst kind of emotional manipulation.
Name and shame, folks. And block, block, block. That’s the only thing that stops anon/non-anon hate. Hell, I’ll block sometimes for what seems like a stupid reason, but it’s only to help me.
On December 22nd, a twitter account called _taralarson started posting hate on Misha Collins. Basically, this user accused Misha of sexual harassment of minors and women in photo ops at cons. “Tara” began to tweet samples of these pictures without permission to celebrities and tabloid life ruiners like TMZ.
Most recently, on Christmas night, she posted a collage of pics with a tweet Misha made to Donald Trump, and tagged Trump as well as Creation, the people who head up conventions.
However, “Tara Larson” isn’t a real person. In reality, this is a sock account for Travis Aaron Wade’s assistant, Vicki.
Vicki admitted that she didn’t know of anyone Misha had ever hurt. Her only goal is to damage his reputation and career. As TAW’s personal assistant, we can make a reasonable assumption that he’s aware of this behavior. We have further evidence of this from a tweet TAW made a few days prior to this media assault, which he has since deleted:
This is ridiculous. It is libel, it is potentially damaging to Misha’s career, and anyone involved should be ashamed of themselves.
The Winchesters get a new houseplant. Sections of the fandom are furious:
‘That Peace Lily is pulling focus and screen time! This undermines everything the brothers have been through so far! Yet another example of the actors suffering because of bad writing’
Several blogs show up specifically to hate on the plant. Everyone who said it was pretty gets anon hate, there are rumors emerging that the plant sells drugs to kids, the pro-plant bloggers get asked why we hate kids
I don’t want to reblog any of the extant threads about Mark Pellegrino’s dumpster fire antics because I’d prefer not to give him free advertising, but I’ve still spent the better part of a week marveling at how Supernatural’s uncanny casting has given us a Lucifer played by a compassionless, selfish, racist dick who is bros with a guy who stalked and harassed multiple women in our fandom.
reblog if you spend your free time blogging about a television show you’re not a real fan of and fictional characters you disrespect for fun
One thing to write a fanfic, another to deal with deadlines, formats, inputs. Fanfic writers cannot understand.
S.E. Hinton, author of The Outsiders (This tweet of hers has since been deleted otherwise I’d link it.)
My first thought was, clearly this woman has never participated in a big bang before. But it honestly goes so much deeper than that…
You know, I’m always proudest to call myself a fan fic writer when someone, especially someone like S.E., bashes on it. It’s like I’m harboring this little secret about what I actually do when I write fan fiction versus what they’re accusing me of. And while people who put us down about writing fan fic are trying to make us look like idiots, if you ask me, they’re the ones who end up looking stupid. It’s always apparent when someone who gives you crap for writing fan fic has no idea what they’re talking about other than what they’ve heard. They have no idea the amount of passion, dedication, or heart that goes into fan fiction. They have no idea how supportive (for the most part…) the community is. They don’t know the fear of putting oneself “out there” when sharing their work, or what it feels like to have someone admire your work even though you’re not a published author. They might never know what it feels like to have something that brings them so much joy laughed at, or mocked, or disregarded because it’s different. They cannot understand.
Yes, S.E. is a published author, she wrote her first novel as a teenager, and the book is still well known today. She knows about these grueling deadlines, and formats, and inputs she speaks of. But what she seems to be missing about us measly fan fic writers? So. Do. We.
The thing is, countless fan fic writers are writing because it’s an escape, because it’s something we’re passionate about, because it’s a way for our voices to be heard; a lot of us will stop at nothing to be able to write even just a little bit every single day. So many of us are full time students, parents, holding full time jobs, often times doing any combination of the three and so much more. Dead lines? Yeah. I have them. I get to write when the kiddos go down for a nap. Two hours. If I don’t get out what I have to say in those two hours the opportunity is gone unless I want to sacrifice something else (like sleep, for example). Many others are squeezing in words on their lunch breaks or in between classes, staying up late to get something put on a page because they worked all day or haven’t had time otherwise. Sure it’s not a “real” deadline. No publisher or editor is hanging a contract over our heads, threatening our jobs. But you know what comes with that publisher? What comes with that editor and that deadline? A paycheck. Compensation for the time you’ve spent writing. A paycheck just like you’d receive at any other job. So yeah, we may not have “real” deadlines, according to published authors such as the acclaimed S. E. Hinton, but that’s because no one’s forking over cash in exchange for a word count by Monday. We’re writing because we love it. Because we want to share a piece of ourselves whether it comes with money attached or not. We’re writing because we care about something so much, it spills out of our hearts and onto the page in the form of high school AU’s, and slow burns.
We may not understand deadlines according to the “real writing world”, but we sure as hell understand doing what we can when we can because otherwise we won’t get the chance. That does not lessen our skill in any way, shape, or form.
But input, oh. We don’t understand input. …Except for you know what comes along with all that fan fiction we’re not being paid to write? Input. In every single form imaginable. Kudos, and comments, and reblogs, and likes. That is our input. Reviews, recommendations, criticism most of us don’t ask for, thrown at us on our AO3 accounts and our tumblrs, our fanfiction.net accounts, our livejournals, and our wattpads — places most of us go to for solace. Whether we want to see said input or not, it’s there, glaringly apparent. And a lot of times it’s great input! A positive comment on one of my fics can make my day. But sometimes, just like input any published writer may receive, it is not kind. Often times it’s harsh, degrading, discouraging. And we don’t have editors, or assistants, or publishers to keep us going. We don’t have the buffer of “well I’m getting paid to do this so it doesn’t matter whether they like my work or not.” All we have is each other, and our own strength, strength a lot of us have garnered from both tough life experiences and you guessed it, being a lowly, silly fan fic writer.
So you know what? Go ahead. You keep on giving your [shitty, unwelcomed] input on what you think about me writing fan fiction and what I could or could not ever understand because I’m not like you. I’ll be over here doing something I love, something I often times have to fight to be able to do, and I’ll keep doing it because nothing you or anyone else could ever say will make me feel like what I’m doing doesn’t matter. Because it does. And that is something you could never understand.
Anyone who think fic writers don’t know deadlines has never participated in an event and written 10k words in two days fuels by coffee, wine, and good music and no sleep so that they don’t disappoint someone….
Fic writers are real writers mother fucker don’t forget it.
are we done pretending supernatural is a good show
Excuse fucking me? Say that again bitch?
are we done pretending supernatural is a good show
We are, in fact, done pretending supernatural is a good show.
Are we done pretending that a huge ass group of people can’t still continue to love the show and think it’s still good while others don’t?
Newflash, tumblr, it’s ok to have differing opinions. If you don’t think SPN is good, fab! There’s lot of other channels and shows you can turn on.
If you still think SPN is good and enjoyable, then don’t let someone on tumblr make you feel bad for enjoying it.
“Don’t let someone make you feel bad for enjoying it.” No. That’s not how privilege works. Because privilege is central to what makes Supernatural a bad show. What Supernatural fans need to do is LET PEOPLE SAY IT’S BAD. And move on quietly, respecting that those people who are damaged by Supernatural’s irresponsible bullshit are allowed to speak up about their media being garbage.
Because there’s a difference between a show being good and enjoying a show.
Supernatural is not a good show. I love Supernatural.
See what I did?
It’s a bad fucking show. It is. It’s damaging to people of color, women, and queer people. You know how I know that? Because I listen to people of color, women, and queer people who find it damaging and have said so. And instead of defending Supernatural, I keep my mouth shut, let the people who need to speak up have a voice, and go on enjoying my show.
That’s how you enjoy problematic things.
There’s no high horse about that. I don’t feel threatened by that. I can understand that Supernatural is a shitty, damaging show that treats its female characters like garbage and has virtually zero characters of color. And I can still like it.
If you like it, fine. But if you encounter people who have a problem with it, respect that they have a problem with it—BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GOOD REASON TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT—and that includes letting people say it’s garbage right here on Tumblr. And then scroll by and go on enjoying your show without feeling the need to defend something that actually hurts people. That’s what surrendering your privilege is all about.
The Supernatural fandom needs to learn to not be threatened. I know from more than enough experience.
Whew. Okay. Listen, I’m not gonna defend our good ole friend
peujeune up there, because the “WHAT U SAY BITCH” is a pretty classic
fandom baby response, and imma bet peujeune is like 16 and thinks s/he’s pretty
edgy for gettin on OP’s case. I’m not defending that kind of behavior.
However, I don’t think that peujeune would use that tone or
respond that way to just any criticism of Supernatural. In my experience, when
people ARE vocal about things that are problematic in the show, a majority of
fans are supportive and responsive. But OP didn’t write this post for the sake
of social justice–I sincerely doubt they were trying to address privilege,
here. To me, the tone of OP’s post is, rather, an effort to dismiss and step
away from a large contingent of the tumblr fan community. It is a status
symbol. What the OP has said is that the show is Not Good. But what people are
reading into it is this: This show is not good and you are stupid for liking it. The
people who reblog this post who are in the fandom will use it as a point of
pride because it shines like a badge of enlightenment–they are henceforth exonerated
from any ridicule of the show because they, unlike the rest of the fandom, are Smart enough to know their
show is Not Good. And for people who are not involved
with the fandom, this is ridicule. It’s a taunt, and it strikes me as very
mean-spirited, especially given the way it very purposefully makes an example
of a young fan, framing them as the idiot-mirror to a popular argument and
allowing the reader to get a good laugh at their expense. This post is not a
friendly post or a well-reasoned discussion about privilege. This post is kind
of mean, and it is made for no other reason than to make people feel bad about
themselves. What other purpose could it possibly have?
Obviously people are allowed to dislike the show. Obviously
people are allowed to think it is not a good show. And obviously tons of people
do! Even the people who do define Supernatural as a “good” show are critical of
it. The trick is to watch Supernatural with a discerning eye and a critical
mind–and that’s the trick to watching literally anything nowadays. It’s kind
of the purpose of fandom. Engage with your media and start a dialogue about
it–tumblr is an amazing forum for it. I have met so many smart, critical,
open-minded people in the Supernatural fandom. Anyone who is passively
consuming media probably isn’t on tumblr anyway, because this is the land of
rabid, active consumption where people come to be engaged in their media and
participate with a group that is, likewise, engaged in its media. So yes, I
absolutely support you when you say that people are allowed to voice their
opinions on the show and the reasons it is problematic and the ways that it
hurt them. I see that happen every day without consequence. No, what I have a
problem with is the particular brand of self-hating fandom you’re asking us to
aspire to.
This problem is endemic to tumblr–“goodness” or enjoyability
being equated with an arbitrary sense of moral rightness. Equating a show
or movie with its moral weaknesses, writing off an actor or musician
as “problematic” once they have done something that some faction of tumblr
perceives as harmful. This dialogue is RAMPANT on tumblr, and no matter how
good its intention may be, no matter how much good it might have done, no
matter how right someone might be, the language employed often reeks of
self-righteous, pedagogic propaganda. It paints the reader as privileged,
unsympathetic, harmful, weak-willed, and lacking a moral compass if they do not
feel a certain way. It backs them into a corner, creates a dichotomy, and
forces them to make a decision, much like the post above: Am I a good, smart
person like the OP? Or am I like peujeune? Do I think Supernatural is bad, or
am I an idiot? You employed that very same language above, and you did so with
such virulent authority, from such a very high moral ground, that it MUST be
true: Do I listen to women, people of color, and queer people, or do I say the
show is good? Do I think this is a bad show, or am I problematic?
See what you did?
And here’s the thing: fundamentally, I am not
disagreeing with you. Allow people to express their grievances. Respect the
beliefs of others. Acknowledge the ways in which your show might be deeply
flawed. But your method of doing so is a problem.
I don’t have to hate myself for thinking this show is good. I don’t. That’s literally all that @winjennster was saying before you
crawled up her ass, and she’s absolutely right. Essentially, you’re allowing
people to come into your church to worship your god, but you’re still telling those
heathens they’re going to hell with a smile on your face, and so help them if
they don’t keep their fuckin’ mouths shut about it.
What is “good” is more nuanced than what we
have been led to believe on tumblr. “Good” is not
objective. “Good” is not something that you alone get to decide on, and “good”
is certainly not something that you
get to define for me. This is not black and white. Something can be “good”
and problematic. Something can progress. Something can stagnate. Something can
have a great scope and a great range of quality and sensitivity. Great works of
literature and film might be racist or sexist, authors who have produced great
works might be terrible people. We just have to have to fortitude to
acknowledge those things, think about them, and consider the way that they
piece into our lives, and the way we can reconcile them with our modern
society, our personal moral code, and the rights and wrongs we abide by. And
even though I will freely allow people to express the ways in which they think
the show has failed them on their own blog, in their own sphere of influence, I
do not have to let that become my truth. As someone who is critically engaged
with the show and with the fandom, as someone who is a conscientious observer
and someone who identifies as queer in several respects, as someone who is
respectful and thoughtful, I am allowed to feel however the fuck I want about
Supernatural, and you don’t get to say fuck-all about it.
So when I see a post like this, where someone
has employed hurtful dialogue to purport a message that is in no way productive
or progressive, I am allowed to think: Fuck off. Supernatural has issues. But
Supernatural is good. Supernatural has done good. Supernatural means a great
deal to me. I appreciate and respect the strides this show has taken, the way
its actors and its characters have grown and changed.
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