This is a comprehensive list of every example of sexual assault I could find in canon through all twelve seasons, whether carried out, implied, or threatened, physical or verbal. Some examples may be metaphorical, a stand-in for when the writers forgo depicting actual sexual assault, while others will represent a gray area that comes with involving supernatural elements (i.e. demonic possession). In other words, it’s gonna be a very broad list. Will not be friendly to particular ships (as they are presented in canon, not in fanon) or certain characters (even characters I actually like) or, occasionally, popular fandom opinions. Will be especially critical of scenes where sexual assault/rape occurs but is waved away/downplayed by the main text.
The purpose of this list is not to hysterically scream “Rape apologist!” at every episode or call Supernatural the Worst Show Ever, as many of these examples are either relatively mild in the grand scheme of things or contain tropes commonly found in the horror genre. Rather, the point I’m trying to make is that the real problem lies in Supernatural’s historically poor showing of properly acknowledging the act as sexual assault or showing consequences for the act, playing it off for laughs, or trampling over consent issues. This has led to many polarizing opinions in fandom regarding what is and isn’t sexual assault, mostly because people in general aren’t taught that sexual assault is more than just forced male-on-female rape. It’s become a very alarming trend these last few years, and it’s my hope that this list will open up a dialogue on the complexities of consent and sexual assault, and Supernatural’s consistently clumsy handling of it.
Take note that I am only one person, and if you feel I’ve missed an example along the way, please let me know! If you think I’ve mislabeled an example, I might even be willing to discuss it. If there is any relevant meta you think I should link to, let me know and I’ll give credit where it is due. Any comments that begin along the lines of “You’re wrong, this isn’t rape, see, he likes it blah blah blah…” will be either mercilessly ridiculed or outright ignored.
Screencaps used from screencapped.com and homeofthenutty.com
Episode 5×01 (Sympathy for the Devil): Written by Eric Kripke
(Warnings for coercion of vessel consent involving Dean, groping played for laughs [Sam], sexual assault against Dean, character hate)
There’s a lot of ground to cover in this episode, so let’s start with the easy stuff before delving into the thorny issue of angels and vessel consent in the SPN universe. First up to bat, and arguably the least favorite character in all of fandom, maybe only slightly behind Metatron: Becky Rosen.
Hoo, boy
Not a whole lot to say here that hasn’t already been said – dozens of metas have already been composed to criticize the creation of Becky, of how she’s clearly a joke for the general audience at the expense of the ‘crazy fangirls,’ a representation of just how little Kripke understood the passionate fandom that kept a little show like Supernatural going. Yeah, Becky sucks. From her predilection for incest ships to her creepy fawning over Sam, everything she does in this episode is cringey, and I’m so disappointed a Galaxyguest reference was wasted on her.
(….Then again…. when you see the very worst fandom has to offer, on both sides of the shipping divide … maybe her characterization is a little more on the nose than some people are comfortable admitting. >.>)
Sam: Um, Becky … Can you, um, quit touching me?
Becky, gasping and rubbing Sam’s chest: No.
Haha, isn’t it funny how this ridiculous fangirl is so overcome by Sam’s mere presence that she physically can not stop touching him? Hahahaha. Ha ha. Ha.
(Seriously, though, kiddies, don’t be a Becky, stop groping actors at cons).
Next up, we have … actually, nope, I’m gonna save that one for last. Let’s get the angels out of the way before we hit the really wanky stuff.
Throwing around words like ‘consent’ and ‘angel condom’ this episode, a certain degree of sexual connotation is added to the act of an angel taking a human vessel that we hadn’t previously seen in s4, when Castiel possessing Jimmy was seen as something otherworldly, holy, even. Yes, unlike a demon, angels cannot take a vessel without the person’s explicit consent … but that doesn’t mean that the consent can’t be coerced. And as we should all know by now, a coerced yes in sex isn’t a true yes, though for angels, it’s just enough. As 5×01 demonstrates to us, that ‘yes’ can be coerced out of the vessel by any means necessary.
Although both claim to be fighting on the ‘right’ side of a celestial war, Zachariah and Lucifer both use underhanded tricks to manipulate Dean and Nick, respectively, into giving up their bodies as vessels, either through common bullying tactics or, in Lucifer’s case, by more, um, seductive methods. While Zachariah’s plan is to ruthlessly torture Dean (and Sam) in the hopes of wearing Dean down into consenting, Lucifer tries the more silver-tongued approach with Nick, throwing in a little bit of psychological torture (the hallucinations, the phantom baby cries, appearing as his dead wife in her nightgown on their bed, etc). In other words, Lucifer uses both the stick and the carrot, while Zachariah uses only the stick (well, other than a half-ass deal in exchange for fixing Bobby’s legs). Bastards, the both of them, especially Lucifer, who was just as full of shit in s5 as he is now in s13.
And finally, we have … Meg.
[Requisite warning for anyone who hasn’t read the other posts for this series] To put it quite simply, she is my least favorite character and genuinely squicks me out, so don’t read on expecting me to say nice things. She’s like ten Beckys squished into a leather jacket.
After the demon inside Bobby gives up its ruse and beats Dean into submission, Meg waltzes into the motel room with her lackeys, quickly positioning herself as the most dominant person in the room. Dean’s right: my God, does she love the sound of her own voice. That fucking baby voice is nails on a chalkboard. Picking up Ruby’s knife (I’m seeing red at this point), she caresses Dean’s jaw with the blade, taunting him about how she should have ripped off his ‘pretty, pretty face’ ages ago.
Meg: You’re the only bump in the road. So every demon – every single one – is just dying for a piece of you.
Dean: Get in line.
Meg: Oh, I’m in the front of the line, baby. Let’s ride.
Grabbing Dean’s jaw, Meg then takes a moment to remind the audience that she might have a new face, but she’ll always have the same calling card. It’s practically a parallel to her scene with Sam in 1×16, right down to her use of the fake term of endearment ‘baby’ to demean Dean.
This is Meg, okay? The very essence of her character. Other than faithfully serving whomever she deems her boss at the moment (Azazel or Lucifer), her goal is to always be top dog of all the other little demon minions, and her weapon of choice time and time again has always been sexual assault. She wants to dominate her adversaries, humiliate them, because rape is never about love or even lust, it’s always about power. (”I take power where I can get it,” her own words from 7×21).This is about making Dean feel powerless, to drive home that she can do whatever she wants to him, including having some fun before she kills him and Bobby.
Fighting soon breaks out after demon!Bobby tries and fails to kill Dean, Sam unexpectedly walking in with no clue of the trouble he’s landed in.
Meg: Hey’ya, Sammy. You miss me? Because I sure missed you.
Sam, glaring: Meg.
Unlike Dean, Sam recognizes Meg instantly despite her new face because Ruby would never have talked to him like that. And just like that, Meg oh-so-casually reminds Sam of their extensive history together: her fixation with him in s1, and the time she possessed Sam and used his body not only to kill several hunters, but to also torture and (heavily implied) attempt to rape Jo, some of which he was awake for. Traumatizing stuff, and she’s just so gleeful at the chance of having another go at him.
Whoever that poor woman Meg was possessing was, she probably got all of 24 hours to run away before Meg tracked her down and possessed her again (I know they did it for casting simplicity, but this makes me so angry on behalf of that unnamed vessel, whose life was ruined just like the real Meg Masters’ was!!).
Bleh.
Episode 5×03 (Free to be You and Me): Written by Jeremy Carver
(Warnings for one character pretending to be the former love interest of Sam in an intimate setting, ship hate)
Picking up from where we left off with the issue of angelic vessel possession and coerced consent, we turn next to Lucifer’s second attempt at seducing a vessel into saying yes (keyword in this case definitely being seduced). Like he did with Nick in 5×01, Lucifer once again appears before his desired vessel in the form of a lost lover. In Sam’s case, it’s Jessica Moore, his old Stanford girlfriend, his first love and first adult relationship. Lots of guilt and emotions to exploit there. This time, however, Lucifer keeps up the charade longer than he did with Nick, conversing with Sam as though he actually were Jessica, tricking not only Sam but also, initially, the audience. Which makes his reveal at the end of the episode all the more disturbing when you realize Lucifer was in bed with Sam all this time, caressing Sam as though he really was Sam’s long lost love. Looking back on this scene with what we know Hallucifer (aka. Sam’s memories of Lucifer) implied he did to Sam while in the Cage, plus season 12′s nephilim arc, this makes Lucifer’s ploy all the more disturbing (and flat-out icky).
Needless to say, Sam is not amused when the charade is exposed.
I have no intention of sugarcoating canon Samifer, okay? Lucifer can make all the meaningless platitudes of empathy he wants, but when Sam says point blank he has no intention of becoming the archangel’s vessel, Lucifer’s response is to make it very clear that Sam ultimately has no choice in the matter, that Lucifer will do whatever he deems fit into securing consent from Sam.
Sam: I will kill myself before letting you in.
Lucifer: I’ll just bring you back.
Translation: I won’t take ‘no’ for an answer. No matter what you say, I’ll still have you.
See why I’m including angelic possession in a post about rape and sexual assault?
Episode 5×06 (I Believe the Children are Our Future): Written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin
(Warnings for forced pregnancy via demonic possession)
So Andrew Dabb and his demonic child obsession – what’s up with that?
I was on the fence about this episode for a while because Julia Wright, Jesse the Antichrist’s mother, hadn’t actually been forced to have sex while she was possessed. She conceived Jesse immaculately … however the fuck that was possible. I guess Dabb wanted to avoid Jesse being a child born of rape (or at least, rape in the tradition sense, involving sex). However, that doesn’t erase the fact that Julia was impregnated against her will (still lots of sexual connotations, even without the intercourse), and then forced to carry the child to term.
Julia: The pregnancy, birth—all of it. I was possessed. The night the baby was born, I was alone. And the pain was—the pain was overwhelming. I, I screamed, and it came out a laugh, because the demon was happy. It used my body to give birth to a child.
If you watch her closely, Julia is also a very good example of a traumatized rape survivor. She’s easily startled, mistrustful of strangers, posture closed off and hunched in. It makes her second possession all the more harder to watch, especially with the demon (the same demon that raped/possessed her) acting so familiar, possessive, reminding Julia of the ‘great times’ they had together before forcing itself inside her.
For additional reading, be sure to check out this great piece of meta by subjecttochange8 (much thanks to @justanotheridijiton, who recced this and a whole boatload of older posts to help me with the project!). Though it was written with a focus on Cas’s nonsexual loss of agency in 5×06, it still includes an interesting (and rightly critical) read of Julia being victimized by the narrative, and I particularly like this bit:
“Only her trauma, used to carry us to the characters of Sam and Dean and Jesse, is, and that is where Dabb and Loflin’s use of her character plays out the demon’s use of Julia herself: She is violated, disempowered, and used, only to be discarded when she is no longer suits their purposes.”
Poor Julia. I bet she and Kelly Kline would have a lot to commiserate about.
Episode 5×07 (The Curious Case of Dean Winchester): Story by Sera Gamble and Jenny Klein
(Warnings for euphemisms for rape in the dialogue)
Other than that awkward moment with Dean peeking under the covers to get a look at Cliff’s dick for ‘investigation purposes’ and Patrick giving Sam the clap with a clap, there’s not much to say about this episode other than this single line:
Dean to Bobby: And there’s an archangel out there waiting for me to drop the soap.
This line further links cored consent for angelic possession as something akin to rape, a chilling reminder with the threat of Michael looming in Dean’s future.
Episode 5×08 (Changing Channels): Written by Jeremy Carver
(Warnings for euphemisms for rape in the dialogue)
More rape imagery surrounding Michael and Lucifer, particularly for Sam and Gabriel in this episode.
Dean to Gabriel: You’re grabbing ankle for Michael or Lucifer, which one is it?
Gabriel: Listen to me, you arrogant dick. I don’t work for either of those S.O.B.’s.
Dean, scoffing: Oh, you’re somebody’s bitch.
Later, when Sam is the Nightrider car:
Dean: Whoa whoa whoa, not so fast. Nobody’s going anywhere until Sam has opposable thumbs.
Gabriel: What’s the difference? Satan’s going to ride his ass one way or another.
(Okay but Lucifer literally driving the Sam-car would have made for a very different 5×22 o_O)
And, of course, poor Sam being given an STI two episodes in a row. Boy just can’t catch a break!
Episode 5×10 (Abandon All Hope): Written by Ben Edlund
(Warnings for sexual assault via a crossroads demon kiss, implied attempted sexual assault, character hate)
Although she’s still annoying as hell and fixated on Sam as ever, Becky keeps her hands to herself (for now), so we’ll pass over 5×09 and jump straight into the mid-season finale. In a season that was pretty much a dumpster fire for women, what better way to introduce a male sexual predator (Crowley) than to have it coincide with the demise of a female sexual assault survivor (Jo Harvelle) done in by her rapist (Meg). Lucifer’s here, too, by the way, smugly confident that Sam will say yes to him in six months time.
As previously mentioned in my write ups for seasons 2 and 4, a crossroads demon kiss can be viewed as an act of sexual assault, and Crowley’s deal with the banker Mr. Pendleton is actually a really clear demonstration of the uneven power structure between the demon and the unwitting victim.
Pendleton: In my negotiations I was, uh, dealing with a very young, attractive, uh, lady. […] She said the deal would be sealed with a kiss.
Crowley, smug: That’s right.
Pendleton protests, suddenly much less enthused about the prospect of selling his soul.
Crowley: Your choice. You can cling to six decades of deep-seated homophobia, or give it up and get a complete bailout for your bank’s ridiculous incompetence.
As always, Crowley’s innuendo is far from subtle. The demon moves closer, like a shark that smells blood in the water.
Pendleton: There are just things that I—
Crowley: Going once.
Pendleton: I don’t think so—
Crowley: Going twice.
Pendleton: All right! All right.
That’s good enough for Crowley. He pulls Pendleton in, ignoring his last “No,” and laying a solid one on him.
First off, lemme be clear – I’m not shedding any tears over a money-grubbing homophobe losing his soul by committing the very act he so very much detests. He can rot. And while I do interpret Crowley as pansexual and has an attraction to men (not that a rapist makes for decent representation), I believe the majority of his enjoyment from this interaction comes from making the homophobe submit to him even when he clearly doesn’t want to. It’s a power play, which is all sexual violence is, and even before Crowley canonically raped multiple people in a suburban orgy, he has always loved being the king, the one in the position of power (until he didn’t, but that’s another story :P). This isn’t much different than Meg forcing herself on Dean at the beginning of the season, only now Crowley is getting off on coerced consent.
So Spn’s first same-sex kiss is an act of sexual violence. Yayyyyyy.
As for Jo, she starts the episode offered up as ‘sexy bait’ and runs into some trouble with Crowley’s hench-demons.
Demon: Evening, pretty lady. Get yourself on in here.
Jo, in a short black dress: I just need to make a call.
Demon: You don’t need to call anyone, baby. We’re the only help you’re ever gonna need.
Jo: You know what? I think I should wait by my car.
Demon, grabbing her shoulder: We said, get your ass in here.
Maybe the demon was just going to kill her, but his language suggests otherwise. I mean, they’re demons, by now it’s almost expected. And yet for all her trouble, Jo still ends up dead shortly after being mauled by Meg’s hellhounds – ya know, the same Meg that used Sam’s body to almost rape Jo right before torturing her, not that the episode directly addresses their connection, nor allow Jo (or Ellen) the dignity of confronting the demon that had terrorized her. That probably pisses me off more than anything else, that Ellen doesn’t even get a shot off Meg, or survives to avenge her daughter (6×10 would have gone very differently had Ellen still been around…)
Instead, that honor goes to Castiel, who plays Meg like a violin that he then throws into a fucking ring of fire.
*Kim K voice* It’s what she deserves 🙂
Episode 5×11 (Sam, Interrupted): Written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin
(Warnings for kissing of dubious consent, ableism, implied medical abuse)
Lol, this episode is trash, just straight ableist trash, and you could do a whole essay on all the ways mentally ill people are treated as inherently broken or child-like in this episode, but that’s a whole topic for another day. That being said, I would say you’d need at least a basic awareness of mental health and how it’s stigmatized in mainstream media to be able to fully tackle some of the the sexual assault aspects of 5×11.
Right off the bat, there’s a theme of sexual abuse in the medical profession, perhaps to hint at how Dean and Sam will both later be forced against their will by the hospital staff (and the wraith) to be more emotionally and mentally vulnerable than they have all season: after speaking to the too-perceptive psychiatrist Dr. Cartwright for the first time, Dean describes himself as feeling ‘thraped,’ and both boys undergo a routine but completely unexpected prostate exam from an disturbingly cheerful nurse.
Sam: Did the nurse…?
Dean: She was very thorough.
Sam later ends up handcuffed to a bed during the big Monster Reveal, held captive by that same fake nurse who has no problem running her fingers over Sam to get a taste before the main course.
The real grossness comes with how the writers depict lust/sexual habits among the mentally ill patients, and their supposed inability to grasp what is socially acceptable and what isn’t, allowing them to assault and grope without consequences. This also includes how the writers depict the Winchesters (or rather, just Dean) acting as their idea of ‘crazy’ people. In a desperate move to stop their cover from being blown when the totally-not-the-monster nurse walks in on them in the morgue, Dean drops his pants and waggles his dick in the infamous (and incredibly cringey) ‘PUDDING!’ scene. Degrading depiction of mentally ill people aside (not to mention seemingly confusing mental illness with learning disabilities), this move walks a fine line between regrettably necessary and sexual harassment, depending on how you look at it (since Dean doesn’t possess any such learning disability). Either way, it’s kinda gross.
Shortly after the ‘thrape’ line, Red Herring Wendy pops up behind Dean in the hallway and kisses him, to which Dean enthusiastically reciprocates, unbothered by the lack of any traditional greeting. Ooh, look at that hot crazy lady, she’s so unpredictable (and a little kinky), how crazy~~~!
She then saunters off without so much as an explanation, giving Dean a slap on the ass by way of farewell. He watches her leave with a dazed look, while Sam says what we’re all thinking.
Sam. Dude…you cannot hit that.
Even the writers (through Sam), acknowledge the very problematic idea of having sex with a woman who’s ability to give proper consent is questionable at best, yet Dean admits he’s ‘torn,’ seemingly okay with taking advantage of someone. Honestly, this is one of those moments when Dean comes off as too skeevy for my tastes.
But oh no, later that night she changes her mind and corners Sam in front of Dean and Martin, aggressively kissing him in much the same manner as she did Dean. This time, however, Sam is a much more passive participant, seemingly resigned to wait until it’s over.
Wendy: I want him now. He’s larger.
What will that chick do next? We don’t know, because she’s crazy, a veritable sex fiend!!!! No inhibitions, she just kisses whomever she wants, no matter if they want it or not! So cray cray!
At a certain point, it’s not even worth getting mad at the boys, it’s just shitty, incredibly ableist (and sexist) writing, using the crazy hot tropes. Fuck this episode.
Episode 5×12 (Swap Meat): Written by Julie Seige, Rebecca Dessertine, Harvey Fedor
(Warnings for rape through uninformed sex, underage sex, rape through body possession)
In an episode that’s 100% about Sam’s upcoming possession by Lucifer, Sam’s soul is swapped out for another and his body is prematurely taken over by an equally malevolent force – a self-entitled teenage boy with access to demonic magic. Seventeen-year-old Gary is essentially, more or less, mini-Satan (dad with inflexible plan that can never be pleased, goody two-shoes sibling, just wants to do what he wants), and just like the Devil, he takes one look at Sam and thinks, Huh. That one will do just nicely. And what’s his first decision as a newly 26-year-old? Why, belly up to the bar, of course, and purchase an alcohol. And while his initial plans didn’t include having the sex, when a smoking hot older woman chats him up and offers, well, who is he to say no when a opportunity like that falls in his lap?
Crystal: I like your jacket.
Gary: Thanks. Actually, the whole outfit is new.
Bleh. WAY too many people involved in greenlighting this script obviously thought that since Gary was in an adult body, everything would be fine and dandy. But it’s not. No matter the age of Gary’s current body, it’s rape, no matter how you slice it. I very much doubt Crystal would be pleased to know she had unwittingly agree to having sex with an underage boy (ya know, like a felony). What’s more, neither did Sam agree for his body to be having sex, no matter how his consciousness is separated from the rest of him. Gary essentially raped two people in one go, grimly impressive even by Supernatural’s standards (kinda like April the reaper in 9×03).
Apparently, the only line the show wouldn’t cross was having Crystal shown physically in the same bed with the actor who played Gary, ‘cause that’s when underage sex stops being funny, I guess. Instead, Gary remains in the bed, chest bare and most likely naked, with Crystal across the room in all her leather.
(And then involving implied BDSM as a cheap laugh like it’s not an entire sexual practice that doesn’t preach safe, sane, and informed consent? It’s about as tone deaf as you can get.)
And does Gary have any regretful, empathetic words of apology to convey when he gives Sam back his body, one friend dead and another traumatized for life?
Gary: My bad.
[As a sidenote, it should come as no surprise that Gary’s friends are just as big of creeps as he is, or at least, his buddy Trevor is. As a reward for handing over Sam and Dean, he moronically tries to bargain with the demon possessing Nora into giving him money, and the love of his crush. Implications of rape aside, as we saw in 4×08, we all know just how well that would have worked out.
Episode 5×14 (My Bloody Valentine): Written by Ben Edlund
(Warnings for coerced relationships, dubcon or noncon ymmv)
If there’s one thing Season 5′s myth arc centers around, it’s the corruption of free will and removing or forcing consent with the promise of a ‘‘’perfect’’’ or ‘’’better’’’ love. What better way to further explore that theme than by having a Valentine’s Day love spell episode?
Although this episode only has one main baddie, there are, in fact, two culprits for the love spells: the Cupid and Famine. We witness Famine’s handiwork early on in the cold open, a couple going on their first date only to end up eating themselves to death. Gruesome as hell, to be sure, but the interesting bit comes when the roommate of one of the vic’s reveals that her friend was a committed virgin and that she was saving herself for marriage. So in Sam and Dean’s eyes, there’s this yet unknown force powerful enough to push someone into engaging in carnal acts they otherwise wouldn’t want to participate in – and then pushing them way over the line into an obsessive hunger. Or, as Cas puts it more succinctly:
Castiel: The cherub made them crave love, and then Famine came, and made them rabid for it.
Thanks to s4, you should all be familiar with the complicated consent issues involving love spells, how pushing someone into loving someone or having lust for them takes away their right to say ‘No.’ Obviously, this is a big old problem when obsessive love is taken to such an extreme, but what happen about when the caster of the love spell believes their intentions are pure? Should consent stand in the way of true love?
First off, it should come as no surprise that an angel that cares more about matchmaking than respecting people’s boundaries would be a naked hugger.
Castiel: This is their handshake.
Unlike Famine, the Cupid is presented as a happy-go-lucky, touchy-feely, lover of love. He’s not afraid to admit he digs chick flick moments 😛 He is genuinely devastated that his ‘intended targets’ are killing each other, swearing that his intentions aren’t malicious. But Sam and Dean still have some (valid) concerns.
DEAN Wait, wait, you said–You said you were just following orders? […] Whose orders?
Cupid: Whose? (laughing) Heaven, silly. Heaven.
Dean: Why does Heaven care if Harry meets Sally?
Cupid: Oh, mostly they don’t. You know, certain bloodlines, certain destinies. Oh, like yours. […] Yeah, the union of John and Mary Winchester–Very big deal upstairs, top priority arrangement. Mm.
Dean: Are you saying that you fixed-up our parents?
Cupid: Well, not me, but… Yeah. Well, it wasn’t easy, either. Ooh, they couldn’t stand each other at first. But when we were done with them–Perfect couple. [… ] The orders were very clear. You and Sam needed to be born. Your parents were just, uh…meant to be. (sings) A match made in heaven- heaven!
No matter how the Cupid cheerfully sells it, the revelation that John and Mary were only together because the angels more or less forced them to be for Heaven’s own apocalypse-serving agenda really takes the shine off the idea of their parents’ previously near-perfect marriage. Really, the entire romantic concept of being shot by Cupid’s arrow is thrown into questioning, of whether this extreme form of matching making is turning relationships into noncon.
No wonder Dean reacted violently. Told just last episode by a smugly confident Michael that ‘You can’t fight City Hall’ and now confronted that his entire family has been dicked around by the angels, Dean lashes out at Heaven the only way he can – by punching a naked man in the face. It does just as little good as Michael promised it would.
So in the end, even though Famine was the cause of the violent deaths this episode, Heaven doesn’t come out looking any better. The difference is that while Famine has no delusions over the work he does, the Cupid sincerely believes he’s doing noble work by bringing couples together, even if they hate each other. It’s another look into how Heaven believes they can do whatever needs to be done to win the Apocalypse, coerce Dean’s consent in any way they feel necessary, because, in their eyes, their cause is good and righteous.
Episode 5×16 (Dark Side of the Moon): Written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin
(Warnings for threat of sexual assault via groping of a nonliving entity, normalization of sexual assault)
I’m just gonna come out and say it: the Dean/Pamela kiss is gross and unnecessary.
If you’ve read my season 4 write up, you’ll know that I’ve got a bone to pick with Kripke over Pamela Barnes and her style of ‘flirting.’ To recap: she grabbed Dean’s crotch in 4×01 when they were still basically strangers, and in 4×09, she slapped Sam’s ass. Although they had both acknowledge that Pamela was very good-looking, both brothers expressed discomfort (verbally or by facial expressions) over Pamela’s aggressive actions. Basic rule of thumb: if you would freak if a male character treated a female character a certain way, the same should hold true for the reverse.
By having Pamela pull Dean into a kiss where it seems like there’s mutual pleasure, the writers are basically retconing Pamela’s past history with the boys as though Dean had been receptive to Pamela’s flirting all along. It normalizes her sexual harassment of Dean (in Sam) in s4 and fuck – that – noise. Just because she’s good-looking doesn’t Dean has to like it, doesn’t mean Pamela gets a free pass for groping the boys repeatedly.
Of course, if we work under the theory that Dabb and Loflin had a method to this madness, perhaps it makes a certain amount of twisted sense that Pamela ‘Not afraid to take what she wants’ Barnes would be the one – out of all the possible choices – to encourage Dean to say yes to Michael, despite Dean’s adamant refusal. Probably not their intent, but it still says something…
Of course, immediately afterwards the Winchesters stumble into Zachariah’s trap, where we’ve got skeevy Zach playing with illusions and false memories as he always does. Like the gloating asshole he is, Zachariah taunts the Winchesters with a fake!Mary, spinning malicious lies that fall from her mouth and hit Dean like bullets.
Sam: You son of a bitch!
Zachariah: You know what, Sam? I would actually say the same thing, but I’ve actually grown quite fond of your mother. Or, at least, the blessed memory of her.
He starts slobbering all over fake!Mary’s neck, visibly enjoying the Winchesters’ disgust, and Zach’s Azazel vibes have never been stronger. Not technically sexual assault, since this Mary is only a memory and not actually alive, but there is still the implicit threat that Zachariah could go after the real Mary, if he so chose to.
Zachariah: I think we’re going to be logging a lot of quality time together. I’ve discovered that she’s quite the … MILF.
Ughhhhhh. And this is the person by proxy that Pamela wants Dean to say yes to? Take comfort that Dean makes good on his promise to stab him in the face two episodes from then.
Edit: Possible conspiracy theory: Ash and Pamela and the Roadhouse were all constructs of Zachariah, and Pamela trying to convince Dean to accept Michael (and kiss him) hint at this. Normally, I don’t like theories like this if the text doesn’t explicitly call it out, but it makes you wonder…
Episode 5×18 (Point of No Return): Written by Jeremy Carver
(Warnings for euphemisms for rape in the dialogue)
Been a fair handful of episodes since Dean and Sam’s impending possessions to Michael and Lucifer were referred to in such a blatantly rapey manner. I almost wonder if one of the big wigs caught on and asked for them to tone it down.
Dean, to Zachariah: I said … before Michael gets one piece of this sweet ass, he has to turn you into a piece of charcoal.
Episode 5×19 (Hammer of the Gods): Written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin
(Warnings for casual references to mythological rape)
For all the dogma and strict practices surrounding religion, I find it surprising that there are only two ‘ground rules’ for the meeting of the world’s ‘pagan’ (aka non Judeo-Christian) gods: No slaughtering each other, and keep your hands off the local virgins.
Maybe that’s why Zeus is conspicuously absent from the episode? No way would fuck boi be able to keep his hands (or swan feathers) to himself.
Episode 5×21 (Two Minutes to Midnight): Written by Sera Gamble
(Warnings for euphemisms for rape in the dialogue)
Here’s a funny thing: When you watch 5×21 on the DVD, Dean’s line to Bobby during the opening credits is as follows:
Dean: Did you know about this?
Bobby: What?
Dean: About Sam’s genius plan to cram the devil down his throat.
but when viewed on Netflix, suddenly the line is altered so that Dean only says “Sam’s genius plan to say yes to the devil,” although the subtitles still read the correct line from the script. Now, why this is worrying enough to make me wonder if I’ve been missing pertinent lines because of fucking Netflix of all things, this also more or less confirms the underlying, violent sexual nature of coerced angelic possession, particularly of that of Sam and Lucifer. Obviously, someone at Netflix felt the need to edit the line. (I guess, I have no idea how these things work).
Afterwards, Sam (with Dean) gets his third STD of the season (syphilis this time), courtesy of Pestilence. I think by now we can all agreed that Sam’s had a rough season of being punished for s4.
Meanwhile, Crowley shows that, like in 5×10, he’s not above humiliating the men he kisses and makes deals with it amuses him. (The use of tongue, however – that’s all on Bobby :P)
tldr: For once, it’s not all that much of a stretch to say the cases of sexual assault throughout the season were intended by the writers to mirror the greater narrative story. I mean, how many times were Lucifer and Michael were explicitly mentioned in connection to rape euphemisms? Season 5 is, at it’s core, Free Will vs Destiny – the right to say no (or yes) no matter what forces pressure you into a certain choice. Sam and Dean’s struggle to main their bodily autonomy is reflected in the narrative mirrors. Mary and John, Jesse’s mom, and Jo are the victims of fate, while Meg, Zachariah, and Lucifer (even Becky and Gary), are the agents of fate, and take what – and who – they want. Free Will is threatened, and therefore, naturally, so is consent.
This has a lot of good points brought up, and I’d ordinarily just reblog it as is, but I got stuck on the “Netflix editing actual lines from the show for streaming”. What.
Listen… Dean Winchester doesn’t think he’s straight
I agree that Dean knows he’s attracted to men, he’s probably even slept with plenty of them. But it’s also possible that Dean doesn’t believe he’s gayor bi.
I obviously can’t speak for him because I’m not writing the show, but let me tell you, I have lived my entire life as a bi person and didn’t realize that the attraction I had to the same sex made me a real life gay until this year. It’s not something I actively squished down either. I just didn’t think about it much until it hit me over the head that I was ignoring another side of myself.
Sexuality is complicated and there is a reason that Dean isn’t out and proud. His biggest problem has always been that he denies himself happiness because he’s always worrying about everyone else. Selflessness has kept him in the closest just as much as shame.
I mean, this is real for sure, but there’s also an important difference between not thinking or realizing you’re queer and thinking that you’re straight.
Dean has self-confessedly felt like a ‘freak’ his entire life on more levels than one, so thinking that he’s straight is likely a privilege he never had, regardless of who he’s felt attraction toward or had sex with. He was barely an adult when he canonically flirted with cross-dressing as a sexual fetish. I think Marghe is right in that he’s never thought he was straight, what ever he did think of himself. Because straightness does impliy things above and beyond heterosexuality, of a non-deviant, unquestioned normative status, you know. The stuff of privilege.
I agree with both of you. I don’t think Dean thinks he’s straight.
The reason I replied to this post in the first place (which I should’ve clarified) was because I didn’t agree with @postmodernmulticoloredcloak ‘s tags
I don’t think it’s fair to say that Dean isn’t in some form of denial or that he isn’t repressing part of his identity (which is why I think it’s possible that he doesn’t apply bi/gay labels to himself-yet). I mean, performing!Dean exists for a reason. If denial/repression wasn’t an issue we would see a much more open Dean.
Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted what you really meant @postmodernmulticoloredcloak. I know we’ve discussed Dean’s struggle with performing, toxic-masculinity and internalized homophobia before.
Yeah sorry I didn’t elaborate on that, in the tags I was referring to interpretations of Dean as so deep in denial that he is convinced he’s straight, and that kind of vision is kinda grating to me because that’s not Dean’s character. Dean has built up this entire system of façades and performances because he knows what he is (re: sexuality and many other things) and because he knows, he knows what to hide and how. I hope I’m making sense because I’m not functioning much tonight lol.
My interpretation of Dean is that he’s muuuuch more aware than most part of the fandom seems to give him credit for, and as I always say that’s the tragedy of Dean, that he chooses to sacrifice emotional needs he knows he has for self-preservation and family-preservation, so to speak. And there’s also that aspect of self-deprecation @f-ckyeahfutbol has pointed out which I think it’s all connected, he self-deprecates because he knows he has emotional/sexual/whatever needs that make him a freak in the context of the cultural and mental frame he’s grown up in. So yeah I think he’s been quite self-aware since day 1. I see his journey more about self-acceptance than self-discovery tbh, while is Sam’s case there’s a process of self-discovery and Dean-discovery so to speak.
Dean may not have been up to date with the latest elaborations of queer theory in 2005 and he may not be up to date with the latest elaborations of queer theory now, but he has had a journey of connecting with queer people with various different experiences (look at who has shown or taught Dean about hacking stuff throughout the show. Could hacking be a metaphor? Yes I think so.) and I’m not sure where I was going with this exactly but yeah, I believe that Dean knows his shit, he simply has self-preservation mechanisms deeply ingrained and he’s basically fighting a silent fight against them.
I think identity construction and especially queer identity construction is an interesting question and @aslightsgoflashing brings up important points. While Dean Winchester clearly has some knowledge of non-mainstream queer culture, the environment he was brought up in is far from ideal for the construction of a strong identity of any kind – something that we saw him struggling with in main text in the early seasons. I’ve written before about how I think meeting Charlie Bradbury was something that started him on the journey of constructing an actual queer identity, but how far along that road he is still remains open.
As an aside, I had a conversation with my partner when we were starting to date about when we knew we were queer, and they introduced the topic of conversation with “Well, that’s always the kind of thing you ask another queer person, isn’t it?“ We all have a… journey, and for ourselves we write a story about it.
But I was actually thinking about all the other connotations of ‘straight’ when I first saw Marghe’s post, and something about that is still trying to take form in my mind. Dean Winchester fancies himself a renegade, took much joy in being counter-culture, explictly said that he’d rather be a part of the Munsters rather than main-stream society. With no regard to his sexuality at all, I find it difficult to reconcile with his character that he would ever have thought of himself as any manner of straight just because bucking the system was his way of dealing with the burden placed on him.
Yeah, I don’t think anyone’s going to own to it, but there have been anons some of us get which are basically demanding she be entirely subservient to Sam and Dean in the plot, grovel for apology for being a terrible mother, and how dare she exist in the story outside of them without mentioning them or having a one track mind about them >.>
I mean, it’s basic good writing to have ANY character introduced who has something other than the primary reason they’re in the story to make them interesting, right? Like, you write an ice cream man the characters go to to get ice cream, and if he has a personality and references even in a couple of lines that he has a life outside of selling ice cream, he’s a well-rounded character given his place in the story, right?
You reintroduce Mary to the story, you’re not going to just paste her on to Sam and Dean to follow them around and help them mindlessly and just be there to comfort and uplift them, she needs to have *anything* about herself that is not just being tucked under their arms the whole time. Even stories where her emotional centre is about them, if she handles it in her own way, for herself, and is written as a character who clearly has a 3-dimensional inner life and wants and needs and will do things for herself and make choices that make sense for where SHE is and not what Sam and Dean need from her every single time, then she’s well-written enough to pass as a real human character, you know?
I think she’s really well-crafted in that respect, that her story is still all about her family and sons at the end of the day, but everything she does is still what Mary wants and feels and needs, and I literally do not care that it might not be what Sam and Dean want and need from her, because in a way they selfishly got to have her to themselves for 11 years as a character, as a figment in the narrative, as just an internalised aspect they carried with themselves. It’s like she’s a genie manifested from them into the story and now she’s free and running wild. And of course you can see she loves them wildly, but she’s also a Winchester, so that means she’s a depressed suicidal wreck who makes bad decisions and vents by punching all the skeeziest bad guys in the face… How can you not love her? 😛
At the end of the day when it comes to Mary that’s literally all I care about to boil it down to the most basic element: she is FREE. And that’s what the writing is telling us, even when she is captured she’s going on personal arcs that work for herself and her own emotional story. So I’m happy with how they handle her because the writing cares that she is a real person.
Look at how dramatic these nerds are. Dean is literally and deliberately out of view behind a woman who at that moment is returning Castiel’s good will.
‘Good luck’
And Cas needs it because about a second later. Dean practically appears out of nowhere. That dramatic shit of appearing out of nowhere used to be Cas’ thing. Dean’s all pleased with himself for surprising Cas, and Cas is literally taken aback and speechless
IKR!
And then just after this sudden surprising reappearance by Dean, wham bam suddenly Cas himself becomes a target for the Angel who’s been in the area specifically targeting people with a broken heart.
Dean kicked Cas out of what he thought was his home and away from those he thought cared for him, giving him no valid reason and leaving him homeless and living in a GasnSip cupboard. Then he turns up with a grin and acts like everything is all fine?
In the words of one of the heartbroken victims, the one who just got dumped *ahem*, “who does that?!!”
I’m sure there’s a reason for Cas being targeted by the Angel just after Dean turns up, I just can’t….quite….put 2 and 2 together….
I know there was a commerical break separating the two scenes, which is really unfortunate, but I’m surprised I haven’t seen a post about the fact that what got Lucifer’s foot in the door with the rest of the angels was the PROMISE THAT HE COULD RESTORE THEIR WINGS.
AND THEN THE VERY NEXT SHOT WAS DONATELLO’S PILE OF SKELETONIZED CHICKEN WINGS.
…although at his core he’s still Lucifer.” – Bob Singer
I’ve seen polemics about this concept expressed in the promotional video for 13×13 and in general about the current storyline regarding Lucifer, and I must say that I don’t really agree with the negative interpretation of what the show is doing right now.
In the video, Singer and Dabb are talking about the fact that Lucifer finds himself in a position where he’s forced to ask for help, which is something extraneous to him and “humanizes” him. People have been protesting against the idea of “humanizing Lucifer”, but I think it’s actually a good point.
It’s like the universe is pushing “humanity” on Lucifer – and the point is that he keeps rejecting it and despising it.
Remember, if you were around, the general fandom vibe towards Lucifer before he was reintroduced during the Carver era? I remember all the “Lucifer isn’t so bad” comments, the “in this fandom we love Satan” jokes, all the “the devil is misunderstood” posts. But I’m not here to polemicize with that. It’s just our starting point.
The revelation that Lucifer had been the original carrier of the Mark of Cain, the original lock and key for the Darkness, placed the character in a position where it was easy to paint Lucifer as a force of light whose essence was corrupted and wasn’t, ultimately, responsible for his choices and actions.
Dean had fought against the influence of the Mark, people pointed out, but he’d carried it for a couple years, not ever since the dawn of creation! Can we even hold Lucifer responsible for the consequences of his corruption? The Darkness has no longer influence over him, but he’s carried the Mark for eons, and those effects seem to be irreversible, right?
For a little while I also wondered if the show actually was headed in that direction – if not the redemption, at least the salvation of Lucifer, sort of à la Darth Vader, the idea that the darkness had taken a toll on him so large that it was ‘too late’ for him to revert to the light, the subtle reveal that there was a wistfulness in him, a level of awareness of being some sort of victim to a process of corruption that didn’t entirely came from within.
But this show’s favorite thing is to subvert your expectations, and instead of presenting Lucifer as a noble creature victim of his own eagerness to do good for his father (by accepting the great burden of the Mark), instead of painting him as a tragic figure (like he had tried to paint himself in season 5, after all), the show is continuously presenting him to us as an utterly unlikable, pathetic creature.
Remember all the “Lucifer isn’t so bad, the actual Worst™ is Metatron!!” posts after the end of season 8 and through the next couple seasons? Ho ho said Dabb. Remember how the Carver era made Metatron human to reveal his core as miserable, despicable and pathetic, in a contrasting parallel to Cas’ own experience with humanity? Well, says Dabb, we’re putting a spin on the theme with our very original Castiel major parallel, Lucifer.
Because Metatron, unlike Lucifer, had a deep sense of reflection, and that inclination to reflect on himself and others ultimately allowed him to find a nobility from his own flaws. Lucifer, on the other hand, has the self-awareness of a fuckboi. Also, while directly experiencing humanity didn’t change Metatron very much, but his respect for his father’s creation including, in fact, especially, humanity led him to his ultimate moment of elevation. Lucifer does not respect humanity, and that’s the whole point. Cas, Metatron, Lucifer all found themselves homeless and alone and facing a plethora of human sensations that were alien and shocking to them. They have had arcs regarding angel grace and change and choices, and choice brings us to the big question of responsibility and accountability for one’s actions.
Lucifer the grand archangel, force of light, who loved his father to the point that he accepted the greatest burden – that’s easy to keep to a different scale of judgement than a human. But the show pushes his non-human characters towards humanity for the very reason of putting them bare and ultimately reveal their core. And this is what’s happening with Lucifer. He’s been experiencing physical and emotional sensations close to a human’s, he’s been confronting himself with experiences and people who could potentially offer him some kind of insight (the people around Vince Vincente, Kelly, Anael), but he keeps rejecting humanity. As Singer said, no matter how much humanity we put on Lucifer, his core his still… Lucifer’s.
Humanizing Lucifer means giving him a chance. Giving him choices that maybe he didn’t have as an angel. Stripping him of his angelic attributes, which include the whole corruption via the Darkness thing, means that he has a chance to re-elaborate his self, to experience the world and humanity without the layers formed by his experience with carrying the locked Darkness. It means saying, okay, this is Lucifer. Forget about God, forget about the Darkness, forget about the Mark. This is Lucifer and it’s a vile, wretched creature that does not deserve our sympathy, unless maybe in the form of the homeless guy with the injured leg who very gently told Lucifer that he gave off a repellent vibe and invited him to share a meal with him by the dumpster because the homeless guy was friendly and helpful, not because Lucifer deserved it.
It’s like the universe is giving Lucifer the tools to understand – “I had that experience, I didn’t like it. Hunger. Cold. Loneliness. I don’t know how they keep going” – but he rejects the opportunity and chooses to stick to a certain version of his self – “Lucifer the great and terrible. I don’t know why I said that. Stupid. I mean, it’s like pretty soon, I’m not gonna feel anything, you know. I mean the more I do this, the stronger I get, the more me I become. Lucifer, Prince of Darkness. King of Lies. I’m back, baby”. He does not accept the possibility of changing. Unlike Cas, who embraced change and who only takes steps back if he feels that he has no other choice if he wants to protect Dean/humanity and feels bad about it (season 6, reacquiring angel grace…). Not really unlike Metatron, who never really changed, but still reflected on it and admitted his flaws and saw the good of humanity, and there lies all the difference in the world.
So yeah, let’s humanize Lucifer and show that is core is miserable and pathetic. If this season is about revealing ‘who we are’, there, that’s Lucifer.
THIS!!!!!
Humanising him doesn’t automatically mean redeeming him. Hitler was a human and a despicable person who deserved to die.
Knowing his backstory, seeing that he whines and whines about daddy not loving him enough and never growing, never changing, when he’s given the opportunity to time and time again, that’s showing him as irredeemable.
They’re literally showing the lack of redeemable features he has right now. His CHOICE to act this way.
Which is at the core of the SPN themes about good and bad and the grey area being about CHOICE and again, clearly, as an opposing mirror image of Castiel, the Angel who loves humanity and is so good and selfless at his core v the Angel who hates humanity and is so bad and selfish at his core.
Side note about Cas: the mirror could not be clearer, they even had 2 Cas mirrors (Anael and Lucifer) hashing his story out between each other on that bed and showing Lucifer’s similar starting point but opposing views to Cas’s in the end through his choices, an interesting metaphorical mirror // The Empty and Cas as visual mirrors earlier in the season.
Basically yes. Exactly Marghe. There was a potential after the earlier seasons for redemption through the mark external etc but Dabb has taken that and said NOPE.
This arc is absolutely vilifying Lucifer through showing his POTENTIAL for redemption but then every time given the option revealing the way he chooses to do such irredeemable things.
It’s giving him many crossroad choices where he COULD choose to be redeemed and every time he chooses NOT to be.
I wrote about something very similar here. Though I forgot about Metatron.
I was admittedly quite concerned when we first saw Lucifer in Castiel’s beige colours and saw him attempting to team up and align himself with our angel. The parallel is deliberate though, to show that although they may share similar experiences and character arcs, at their core they are fundamentally different.
9×03 was Castiel’s brush with being human
13×13 showed Lucifer’s with very similar details
13×07 was our first real look at Lucifer in Castiel’s colour scheme, where he spend the whole episode right alongside Cas, forcing us to make the parallel and look at all their similarities.
All three episodes were written by Buckleming.
Is it… is it possible they’ve actually written something cohesive?
Despite popular opinion, they know what they’re doing, they’re just not always good at the actual writing part. If you look at their episodes there’s a strong consistency in themes. Speaking of which, one of those themes is sexual violence/nonconsensual sexuality and every time people yell at it but it’s literally a theme that ties in the larger theme of the show of bodily autonomy (like there’s no sexual violence before s7?). They’re just wonky at writing things nicely, oftentimes, and sometimes lack tact. (And many choices regarding, for instance, deaths of recurring characters, are not the choice of the individual episode’s writer(s), but it’s chosen by the showrunners or at least is a group decision and the showrunner gets the last word). So yeah, it’s not a coincidence.
So this scene totally made me think of the blue & pink wall we saw in 10.05 when Dean and Sam were (not) discussing Destiel or Sastiel. (I’m sorry if peeps already talked about this but I’m behind on reading meta just like I’m behind on everything else in my life.)
The whole scene with Dean and the love spell just had a ton of blue & pink. Like it’s surrounding him in this shot when he’s trying to answer the question “Are you Dean Winchester?” Yup.That’s me, Dean Winchester Lover of the Ladies & the Fellas.
And all that blue disappears once Dean is completely under the spell. He comes back with the book and even though the girls are at the same spot and the little blue car is still in the scene, it’s blue color is barely even noticeable.
it’s completely obscured now. The ladies and their spell are blocking Dean from even seeing it at the moment.
And not to be that person but there is also the sign. Or rather lots of signs
Personally I’ve never seen so many Customer Parking Only signs in my life.Usually if there is more than one, they’re spaced out every couple of parking spaces, not in front of every single space because signs cost money. I’d probably put three signs on that wall, tops. Not more than ten! And then Jamie is lying in the only spot without one of those signs.
And would you look at that, the sign says Rays. You know, like the sun. … And of course ABC stands for All Bout Cas. But my favorite thing about them is Dean’s parked in front of one of these signs and he gets put under this love spell and kisses Jamie and all over this gigantic pink wall are signs yelling that he can’t stay there for more than 2 hours. There is a two hour maximum and I doubt Dean was under the love spell for even that long. Temporary temporary. He can’t stay there. He belongs somewhere else.
Have you noticed how during the conversation with Sam at the beginning of the episode Dean is framed with the dark silhouette of a head (an empty soldier’s helm, in fact) with a halo-like light above, and the scene is intertwined with the first shots of Cas in his cell, the only figure in light over a dark background?
There’s literally the absence of Cas behind Dean, and the absence of a “location” around Cas. It’s almost like you’re supposed to take Cas (who’s “nowhere”) and insert him in the bunker.
I think it’s safe to say Bambi is Dean’s favorite Disney movie.
1.02, 7.09, 13.12
More Disney!! And oh my God what a reference. I mean, Dean unable to kill deer because he relates to Bambi? This character whose mother is killed (by a hunter) (the hunter is the main threat of this movie like ow my heart) and who has to make his own way in the world because he has a formidable, but absentee, father. And he does make his own way, thanks to his friends – his found family – who have helped teach him to walk and to talk and who teach him all about the world around him (his father leaving him with the warning that it’s a dangerous place). And Bambi has this loving and positive attitude of friendly things are pretty and so he names a skunk “Flower” and learns about love, but as a young stag rejects the idea of losing himself that way. Until he meets the lovely doe he simply cannot resist.
I don’t know if it’s the makeup or the lighting or just Jared’s spectacular acting, but that is the face of a truly otherworldly creature.
That is a very old soul.
And a not entirely benign one.
More, please.
Not to speak for @chiisana-sukima, but to me this relates to the ambiguity of Sam’s – well, forgiveness isn’t the relevant word here, though it certainly comes into play in the same nexus of issues – Sam’s distances from his own reactions. Sam as a person whose experiences have been unimaginably extreme, and who has accustomed himself to deliberately and/or unconsciously compartmentalize and minimize their effect on him in order to keep functioning, is a bit inhuman, because being shaped and affected by experiences is a human thing.
And that effect isn’t entirely benign, though it’s also not evil. It makes it hard for Sam to hold people accountable for what they do do to him, for one thing. The ability to experience physical and emotional pain is vital to survival, it’s a necessary warning system, and I think it’s also vital in social and relationship spheres, to keep the ethical reactions that shape how we treat each other dynamic. The fact that with Cole, for instance, “this is a person who tortured me” doesn’t seem to be part of their later interactions at all (and that’s an instance chosen almost at random) makes me terrified for Sam, but also a little bit terrified of him. Even when we see Sam very explicitly using his experiences, as in his dealings with Jack and his dealings with Dean on Jack’s behalf, Sam can’t seem to speak comfortably out of a place of experiencer of his own experiences, they’re something he lends to others, a kind of imaginary currency. Even when Sam does directly acknowledge pain, it often seems displaced somehow, if only temporally: his outburst about his distance from Mary is something that comes after the fact, that maybe could only exist in expressible form for him after the fact.
( @ameliacareful) Yeah, @denugis‘ take isn’t far off from mine, although mine is more about the anger part than the forgiveness part. But the alien-ness/bit of inhuman-ness, yeah. I was thinking he looks in that panel like he’s fae or a changeling- you know, not the disney kind of fairy, but the kind that steals children and drags them off to live in a dream and then returns them after all their loved ones are dead and buried. Which really, is pretty much what he was the victim of, except it was a nightmare and Dean and Cas are still alive (and Jody, but they mostly became friends after he returned. Does he have any other people left alive who he cared about before he went to Hell? I forget).
This is the same conversation where Sam tells Toni I was just wondering how far I’d have to walk to get back to town after I kill you. And her. But you first.That’s not even a threat exactly, although of course it *is* obviously a threat too. But like the panels above, it’s the same kind of contemptuous your bullshit human-level evil is beneath my regard, you’ll do your petty little thing, and then after i kill you in passing, i’ll go back to dealing with the gods. SPN doesnt show us this side of Sam very often, but I feel like when people say Sam is the scary one, this is what they’re talking about.
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